I learned how to fix Ymaha rear end whine

[JerryK]

After my 2000 Venture was totaled I bought 2003 to replace it. The 03 had a whine that I knew was probably the notorious clutch whine. As I rode it more and more I figured out that it was definitely a rear end noise not clutch.

I took it to 3 diff dealers and was told clutch basket. The dealer I liked best for the fix told me that would help but not fix the noise. I assured him I would not settle with that knowing I had 86k on bike that was totaled with zero noise. I told him I didn't want him or any dealer doing it if they were promising that it would not fix it!

To shorten this long story a little......Yamaha got back to him and told him....WE DON"T HAVE A REAR END PROBLEM WITH THE VENTURE BUT.....If he don't mind taking it to dealer in Seymour In. he could fix the problem and they would pay him to fix the problem it does'nt have!

I live 3hrs from there in Ohio but always up for a ride...Gen II Yamaha's deny needing any shims because of great machine tolerances......The Dealer is Dan's Cycle Sales Yamaha and they build Venture and other Yamaha trikes. I was told that the Venture Trikes they convert would lose the Yamaha whine when the rear diff was gone.

Within an hour I watched him take it apart and shim it and then test ride it. Gary ask me to test ride it too....I came back hating to tell him that the noise was much less but still their....but he was on the phone and I had to wait to tell him......when off the phone he ask me what I thought and I told him....He then told me he was on the phone with Yamaha getting auth. to install new rear end......DONE FIXED NO NOISE

I did learn from watching him how he figures the amount of shim needed to fix most whines.

 

 

JerryK

[GunnyButch]

Are you telling me when I get my trike conversion done there will be no more noise? I had always been told (and convinced) that noise came from the clutch. I'll know for sure next month.

[Hummingbird]

Does that 'noise' come in all 2nd gen bikes ?? This past summer I bought a 2007 650 V Star that had so much noise it was scary. I 'upgraded' to a 2005 1100, same noise. Then I 'upgraded' yet again to a 2007 Venture. It still has the noise but I drown it out with the radio.

 

I believe I'll copy the above letter and show my local Yamaha mechanic, see what they think.

[GeorgeS]

So, bottom line here, IS-- Re-Shimming something in the Rear Drive Pumpkin, will fix the infamous Whine ??

 

Is is possible for you to get Details as to how this is done? Or can you Explain in detail how this fellow actually Re shims the rear end ??

 

I'm sure many folks would be very interested.

 

If the fix was done in less then an hour, it should be easy to do.

[Squeeze]

There are Shim's on the Gear Wheel to sett the gear Lash. Taking one of them Out will reduce the Lash in Gear, replacing one with a thinker Unit will increase the Lash.

[JerryK]

First of all let me say to GunnyButch that if yours is for sure a clutch whine it might still be their....but if it's rear end noise you have you will be very pleased. A lot of guys have a rear end noise and everyone assumes it's the clutch basket. If you take off your saddle bags,like I did,then ride it a couple days and concentrate on the noise you can figure out where it is.

I know of one guy here in Ohio that Yamaha had a dealer put 4 clutch baskets in and all it did was move the noise around some.....the customer traded that 2005 Midnight in and got a new Harley. Then the rear end was shimed and fixed! I hate that situation for the guy that liked his Venture and got pushed to Harley when Yamaha wants to deny a fixable problem. Bull****!

The biggest problem I see is that if one has no clutch noise at all its cool.....If you truely have a clutch noise they will tell you that it will not usually go clear away but they can get it to a more tolerable level or speed. That just tells me that on those bikes it's a crank problem not a clutch problem and they don't want to pay for that much work. Thats very sad I think!

NOW HERE'S WHAT THEY DID TO MINE.......

They put the bike on the lift then removed the left saddle bag. Then he left the axle bolted tight and removed the four nuts at the rear of the drive shaft tube. Then with a rubber mallot he taped that area a few time and a gap appeared at the back of the tube. He used feeler gauges to get the amount of gap. It was .020 on mine and he stated that that was not as much as he expected with my rear end noise. He made a .020 shim and installed it and rode it like I said. Then I rode it and he was on the phone with Yamaha as I stated and got auth. to replace rearend.

He also told me it was a common thing to shim Gen 1 Ventures but was not on the new Ventures because of such tight machining tolerances that the new would never need it. But that ends up being wrong!

If any of you have the noise and think it's rearend.... not clutch...... do as above and if it's got much of a gap [.025 or more]

1--- If under warranty make them fix it!

2--- If out of warranty make a good shim out of shim stock that size and you'll love me!

JerryK

[GeorgeS]

So its Stress, between the drive shaft, and the houseing.

 

What I normally do, when re installing rear wheel, is, loosen the 4 nuts on the pumplin, and re-apply torque in stages, to the 4 nuts, and axel nut. Ane Tap Tap on everything with plastic Mallet, to relieve Stress, as I Re-Torque in stages, up to the final Torque settings.

 

However, I never checked shim adjustment. But I will check that now.

 

Thanks much for the Information:

[V7Goose]

I just wanted to add a few comments to keep all of this in perspective for any members who may not already have a full grasp of the subject.

 

First, I do not want to disagree with the OP's comments or conclusions about the possibility of a rear-end whine and how to fix it. There are some sound mechanical principles that fit his description of the problem and that particular fix.

 

BUT, no one should assume from this that the only possibility of a whine in the RSV is from the rear end! Here is a simple fact with which I doubt anyone could reasonably disagree: There are members who have had their clutch basket replaced and found the noise they were experiencing was wither completely gone or greatly reduced; therefore, the clutch basket on their bike HAD to be either causing or contributing to the noise or it could NOT have changed.

 

For anyone who had the clutch basket changed and found the noise still there but different in some way, there are a number of possibilities, including both the clutch basket still being a problem or that maybe the original noise they heard was coming from more than just the clutch basket (maybe a combined noise from the clutch basket and the rear end). But if their noise was different in any way after the basket change, by definition, the clutch basket had to be at least partially to blame.

 

And my last statement should be obvious by now: anyone who had the clutch basket changed and found no difference in their whine quite probably has something else causing the whine. That could be the rear end, a bad bearing, an irritated passenger, or any other of a myriad of possibilities. More troubleshooting is called for.

Goose

[SilvrT]

cool!! .... so where exactly does the shim go?

[N3FOL]

I haven't had any rear end whine yet (knocking on wood), but will keep this in mind.

[JerryK]

Guys......For sure I'm not saying that a clutch noise or other things can't cause a similiar problem. I feel very lucky to have got steered to the right shop and that I didn't have the COMMON problem.......It's just like many other things......People and even Yamaha can jump to the most common trait....I don't disagree with that. I just hope that by sharing my experience I can help someone or most of all head off a situation like that poor guy who traded bikes because of it........I'm new here and pretty experienced with this bike.....but....I'm sure I can learn plenty from a group that focuses mostly on the great Yamaha Venture. That's why I'm here! JerryK

[TEW47]

Pulled the drive shaft a few weeks ago and I noticed when I left the four bolts loose and put the shaft back in there was about 1/8 " or better gap between rear hub and shaft housing. The gear on the end of the shaft had wear marks,real shiny, like it was wearing fast. I then pulled the axle and tighen the four lhub bolts and tried to put the axle back in. Had to take a hammer to the axle to get it started and findly through the hub. Any suggestions on what to do?

 

tew47

[ibents]

NOW HERE'S WHAT THEY DID TO MINE.......

They put the bike on the lift then removed the left saddle bag. Then he left the axle bolted tight and removed the four nuts at the rear of the drive shaft tube. Then with a rubber mallot he taped that area a few time and a gap appeared at the back of the tube. He used feeler gauges to get the amount of gap. It was .020 on mine and he stated that that was not as much as he expected with my rear end noise. He made a .020 shim and installed it and rode it like I said.

JerryK

 

It sounds like a simple procedure, but how did he get the shim over the drive shaft and over the 4 studs without removing the wheel? So like georges said, its a stress thing not gear lash.

 

Ian

[JerryK]

After he measured the gap he did take it apart and changed lube also. Took it that far down to add spacer shim.....but thats a simple task with his knowledge and set up.

From a couple of responses and statements on here why are some guys taking the rear hub off to change rear tire? I put mine on my Sears lift,then remove right bag for axle to come out,take the 2 bolts out of rear disk bracket and tie it back with wire tie. Then I can remove both mufflers so I can get to the axle nut. Then pull axle and drop wheel out with hub left in place. One time I did have to remove left bag because axle was being stuborn! My 2000 venture had factory CD changer in left bag so I quickly learned not to pull that bag.

I do have a factory CD changer that I'm not going to use if anyone needs one.....I'm hooked on XM now. My 2000 had the changer added at dealership before delivery so it was covered 5 years unlimited mile......they replace CD changer twice under warranty with lazer problems from chuck holes. Also when my bike was totaled I got everything off it but the short Clarion coaxil cable for yamaha. Yamaha agreed that since it was original equipped that they would sent me one no cost. I also got the Yamaha part # for the short cord for future use. Dealers told me no part# was ever available for just the cord. They told me only came in kit.....Not true!

JerryK

[yamahamer]

Pulled the drive shaft a few weeks ago and I noticed when I left the four bolts loose and put the shaft back in there was about 1/8 " or better gap between rear hub and shaft housing. The gear on the end of the shaft had wear marks,real shiny, like it was wearing fast. I then pulled the axle and tighen the four lhub bolts and tried to put the axle back in. Had to take a hammer to the axle to get it started and findly through the hub. Any suggestions on what to do?

 

tew47

 

This may help. You should be able to put axle in by hand not hammer.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1705

[frogmaster]

Jerry K,

 

Thanks for this information. I will be driving by this shop Sept 2009 from Northern Michigan. I will arrange a service stop and see if a "Miracle Shim" can silence my Chirrrrrrpppppp that sounds like the spaceship vehicles on the Cartoon the JETSON's.

 

[V7Goose]

This may help. You should be able to put axle in by hand not hammer.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1705

Yes, follow the instructions in that TSB. If that doesn't solve the problem, take it in for warranty fix.

 

I changed the rear tire on a friend's RSV not long ago, and we found it VERY difficult to remove the axle. Neither of my bikes had ever shown this problem, so I knew something was amiss. When we put it back together I followed the procedure in the TSB to align the rear axle, and it slipped right in without binding at all. If that does not fix yours, then you either have a bent axle or swingarm, or something similar that is preventing proper alignment.

Goose

[ediddy]

Hey JerryK,

You are right. Sometime what people think is a clutch basket problem can be the rear end. I starting getting the whine and chirp in my 05 and got the dealer to replace the clutch basket. The whine went completely away. A few thousand miles later I started getting a whine which progressed to a scream. It sounded just like the whine I got before the clutch basket was changed. I left my bike at the dealer and asked them if they would try another clutch basket. The dealer called the next day and said that the pinion gear in the rear end was worn out. I had approx 5000 miles on the rear end. Yamaha replaced the rear diff under warranty and bike was quiet again. Long story short I am on the fifth rear end. The first five were lasting approx 5000 miles. A factory rep from yamaha looked at my bike twice and said he couldn't understand why the rear ends were going bad. I talked to a regional service manager with yamaha and he said there was a time when they were getting defective rear ends from the factory. The third time a different factory rep looked at my bike and said several factory reps from different parts of the country had found that the ring gear in some of the rear diffs was too tight. I now have approx 10,000 miles on the fifth rear diff and all seems ok. I did have a clutch basket problem but sometime there can be a rear diff problem.

[JerryK]

Ediddy,

I've never heard that problem. Sounds like a machine or heat treat problem. One thing about Yamaha they will fix it. I've always experienced that Yamaha will OK fixes easy and as much as it takes to fix a situation. I've had a few Honda's along the years and they will fix stuff but it can be like getting a root canal to get them to OK some stuff. I had a 2000 Venture that was totaled Halloween night 2005 with 86K on it. Earlier that October I was at the bike shop with about 85K on it and was showing the Service Mgr that I had some cracks in the bottom of the trunk that I was going to Epoxy that winter. They wouldn't show and I could fix it easily. Just days before the crash it was rainy and cold and my friend who owns the bike shop called and told me he had a Pkg. from Yamaha and I needed to come get it. He had me a new trunk bottom half ,factory painted and ready to install. I ask if needed my old trunk cause it was very fixable and he said he didn't need it. So I have a 2000 Venture Red trunk bottom still in the box.

 

 

JerryK

[Brake Pad]

I had the whole rear end changed out with 8, 300 miles on it. and every time the rear tire is changed, the hub is re-packed with grease ( I Mean PACKED). my 2007 now has 29,000 on it, 3rd tire and no noise

[raceman62race]

I had to have my rear end changed at 2500 miles. It was a very loud whine....now she sounds good. Somewhere in here someone started a thread that talked about some dealer checking the axle to see if it was bent. I believe the thread said they had found 5 Ventures with bent axles......they weren't bent much, just a few thousands of an inch. If we are somehow bending the axles, that would explain why it would be hard to remove and it would put the final drive in a bind consequently needing shimming at the drive shaft tube.......couldn't find the thread...does anyone else remember reading this?

I have raelly had a hard time with my dealer but Yamaha has been great in fixing the noise. One thing mine did was the noise would go away if you pulled in the clutch and you could only hear it while under power. It would seem like if it were the basket, it would be there all the time.....coasting or under power.

I would be courious to see if the gap moved if you rotated the axle while the 4 bolts were loose.

[Monsta]

Can this rear end whine be differentiated from the clutch basket by pulling in the clutch and coasting? When you pull in the clutch and coast, if the rear end is bad should you still hear the whine?

 

Mine whines but doesn't when coasting with the clutch pulled in. I figured it was the clutch basket and I don't really much worry about it (if it is).

[JerryK]

Monsta,

You are taking the load off the rear end and the clutch at the same time. Can you hear what directions the sound is coming from under power? Could be either but same way my rear end acted.

 

 

JerryK

[raceman62race]

On mine, it wasn't hard to figure out that the whine was coming from the rear.....all you had to do was turn your head sideways and lean over a little. ( be carefull with the driving while you do this) Mine had gotten really loud. I usually listen to the radio with the volume set around 14 and just before I got the rear end fixed, I had to crank it up to 17 just to hear the radio over the whine. Like JerryK was saying, there was no load on the rear with the clutch pulled in. But keep in mind that there are bearings in the rear as well as gears and if you have a bearing going bad, it might whine all the time....coasting with clutch pulled in or under power) I think my issue was the gears weren't wearing in properly. I had to get a Yamaha rep to ride my bike to verify the rear end was bad. I was told by the service manager that the Yamaha rep said it was critical to get the rear end installed correctly.......make sure the axle slides in and out freely so nothing is binding.

[TEW47]

Went by the local dealer yesterday and told him I had pulled the drive shaft to grease it and about the gap between the hub and drive shaft housing. He said since I did the work he didn't know if I assemblyed it right a may not be covered by warranty! All because I did preventive maintenance. I have been working on my own bikes before he was born.

 

tew47