Harley Davidson in trouble

[ediddy]

Another interesting article on msn today. Last year there was an msn article about harley's stock dropping from $70.00 per share to $59.00 per share. It is now in the $13.00 range and is expected to drop below $10.00 by Dec 19. The article says harley sold bikes to buyers who couldn't afford it with no money down. They now are having trouble getting money to finance bikes. I wonder how the metric bikes are doing?

[rsstar]

Sounds just like the banks did to get that mortgages. Let them who done wrong go under. Why should my tax money help a bank that was greedy or a person who KNOWLINGLY took on a mortgage they could not afford. No tears being shed here. By the way, dontcha think the 0% financing by the auto industry had something to do with the trouble they have now????? As I said, no tears here!!! Let them eat cake!!!!!!

[KiteSquid]

It sounds like time to buy H-D stock!!!!!!

 

 

Pick up a bargin!!!!!

[Condor]

It sounds like time to buy H-D stock!!!!!!

 

 

Pick up a bargin!!!!!

 

Only after they get a gov bailout......

[Snarley Bill]

Sounds just like the banks did to get that mortgages. Let them who done wrong go under. Why should my tax money help a bank that was greedy or a person who KNOWLINGLY took on a mortgage they could not afford. No tears being shed here. By the way, dontcha think the 0% financing by the auto industry had something to do with the trouble they have now????? As I said, no tears here!!! Let them eat cake!!!!!!

when they eat the cake everyones going to eat the cake and end up with all their money ,savings, and assets gone. when a country goes under everyone, more so the rich go with it. my grandfather was rich and part owner in a coffee company. then along came the great depression which is miniscule compared to whats going to happen here in the next year or two, and had a great job after the depression as a clerk at the city police station. he was one of the rich who was strong enough not to put suicide up as an option. lost all his money he worked hard for and the assets he worked a life time to accumulate. and he was'nt a crook. he earned it honest. a guy at work said i got no worries my house is paid for and i got money in the bank. i said where you going to get the money to pay the taxes on your house when theres a run on the bank and your savings aren't there anymore. the house goes on the block just like my grandfathers did.

[Aimhigh]

I know the government intervention and the problems it caused in the housing sector...I had no idea they had imposed their stupid sanctions on Motorcycle companies as well. I call your attention to my signature block.

[RoadKill]

I have no worries. STW strategy of our President elect will make it all better.

[FreezyRider]

I honestly don't believe that failure of the gov't to give "relief" to the Big 3 (guess we're going to have to stop calling them by that name!) will mean the end of the American auto industry. We are hearing a bunch of scare stories right now that are meant to panic all of us into calling our Representatives and telling them to support this "bail out". I don't buy it....if the automakers go into Chapter 11 it will NOT mean that they shut down and put everyone out of work. That isn't what happened when the major airlines filed bankruptcy and it won't happen now. The chapter 11 filing will simply allow, no FORCE, the automakers to reorganize both their management and their debt. They will continue to operate.

I know that the union rank and file doesn't want this to happen because their contracts would be voided and subject to the approval of the bankruptcy court. Which, in my opinion would be a good thing. Some outside authority needs to oversee the union contracts, the management pay and benefits, the entire operations of our auto makers and get this wobbling industry back in balance.

 

No, letting them "fail" won't cause the catastrophe that some are trying to make us believe. It WILL force a major change on the industry, which is really what this is all about. But unless this change comes, and soon, it's all going down anyway. Patching the problem with money will only allow the same old management attitudes, union demands, marketing-driven operations that got the whole industry into this mess.

[royalstarjac]

I know the government intervention and the problems it caused in the housing sector...I had no idea they had imposed their stupid sanctions on Motorcycle companies as well. I call your attention to my signature block.

 

H-D's problems are not the result of gov intervention. 10 yrs ago there was a 6mo-1yr wait to get a new H-D. They ramped up production to meet that demand. When the demand waned, they started offering easy financing. No money down, bad credit no problem.

 

When the economy slowed, people were upside down on their bikes and there was a glut on the market so they couldn't unload them. When you have to choose between making your house note and paying on the bike, it's a no brainer. As a result H-D credit is awash in repoed bikes.

 

H-D got gov loans and tarrif protections in the 80's under the Reagan admin. They turned the company around. I believe they are still a solid company. Much of their revenue today comes from licensed gear and foriegn sales. They just bought Italian bike maker Aprilla to increase their foriegn presence.-Jack

[royalstarjac]

I honestly don't believe that failure of the gov't to give "relief" to the Big 3 (guess we're going to have to stop calling them by that name!) will mean the end of the American auto industry. We are hearing a bunch of scare stories right now that are meant to panic all of us into calling our Representatives and telling them to support this "bail out". I don't buy it....if the automakers go into Chapter 11 it will NOT mean that they shut down and put everyone out of work. That isn't what happened when the major airlines filed bankruptcy and it won't happen now. The chapter 11 filing will simply allow, no FORCE, the automakers to reorganize both their management and their debt. They will continue to operate.

I know that the union rank and file doesn't want this to happen because their contracts would be voided and subject to the approval of the bankruptcy court. Which, in my opinion would be a good thing. Some outside authority needs to oversee the union contracts, the management pay and benefits, the entire operations of our auto makers and get this wobbling industry back in balance.

 

No, letting them "fail" won't cause the catastrophe that some are trying to make us believe. It WILL force a major change on the industry, which is really what this is all about. But unless this change comes, and soon, it's all going down anyway. Patching the problem with money will only allow the same old management attitudes, union demands, marketing-driven operations that got the whole industry into this mess.

 

I've been a dues paying Union member for 25 yrs. I've walked the picket line on 2 seperate strikes. However at some point Union membership has to ask themselves if they are being realistic in their demands. What good does it do the membership to break the company with demands that are out of line with current realities. A bailout would just allow everyone to continue business as usual. Not a good option IMO.-Jack

[MiCarl]

the great depression which is miniscule compared to whats going to happen here in the next year or two

 

I sure hope you're wrong about that.

[cuffemdude]

I just read an article that company's like Suzuki have reverted to selling what's been selling best - mid-size cruisers. They've even introduced a new bike toward that end. It will be difficult to gauge what this latest round of economic issues will do to the bike manufacturers until springtime arrives. For now, most dealers, like my local one, are focusing on ATV's, snowmobiles, service, bike storage, etc to keep a healthy bottom line.

 

I think most of the American manufacturers, including HD, will be okay if they agree to bite the bullet, declare bankruptcy, trim the fat, and become "leaner and meaner". Asking for handouts will do nothing more than allow them to continue business as usual, which has been a dismal failure.

 

It wouldn't hurt to watch HD. Word is, $10/share would be a good purchase price. They can keep their bikes though.

 

 

[Snarley Bill]

I sure hope you're wrong about that.

i hope i'm wrong too, but so far ive been right on the last ten years. it's no different then someone trying to run their life and raise a family when there in debt up to their ears. sooner or later you run out of options. the russians ran out of options , and the american people have much more to lose than the russian people did. they had no worries. they just drank more vodka. don't know about other areas but around here the sports bars are packed everynight of the week and on the weekends they are over packed. i figure the younger generation is trying to drink there problems away. there is a big church up the road from me, and when i was coming home from the eureka springs meet and rode by it. there was a family on the parking lot with all their furniture set up like a living room and bed room and they and the kids were living on the parking lot. i went up the next morning to see if i could do something. cuz heavy rain was in the forcast. the minister must have moved them inside. this was a sad thing to see, alot of people won't accept this until it's to late and hits close to home. i am against the bailouts, i am in pretty good shape financially, but i have a little compassion for my fellow man. sure it's there fault and they made mistakes but thats not any reason to throw them to the wolves. i was a uaw worker for thirty years. thank god for that. i worked hard and earned my money and benefits. i don't figure i'm better than anyone. get the crooks and standby the people that work hard for what they have rich or poor. thats just the way i am. bill

[CrazyHorse]

I have no worries. STW strategy of our President elect will make it all better.

 

 

Yes, Yes when the messiah waves his heavy left hand we'll all be saved. What tough job to take the way things are.

[Redneck]

What is happening is a normal cycle that has been made worse by the government propping up the economy. If they had let the bubble burst 3 years ago the recession would have been more shallow and recovered quicker. But they have continually lowered interest rates to encourage people and business's to borrow and spend thus artificially propping up the economy. Americans have been spending at a rated of 140% of their income and now we are all going to pay the debt. The more the government tries to prop it up the worse it will get. It is going to be a rough time for all of us and we will need to give others a helping hand. But we don't need the government giving hand outs thats what got us here.

[FutureVentures]

I've been a dues paying Union member for 25 yrs. I've walked the picket line on 2 seperate strikes. However at some point Union membership has to ask themselves if they are being realistic in their demands. What good does it do the membership to break the company with demands that are out of line with current realities. IMO.-Jack

 

Smartest quote I've heard in a long time. Problem is, the Union has been oblivious to this for years.

 

Also, the Execs stretched the company too thin, reckless expansion. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

Snarly Bill, sorry, I think you're way off on this becoming worse than the depression. Anecdotal evidence is meaningless. Six months ago, the experts were saying a barrel of oil would be $500 by now....is it?

 

Let the badly run companies fail, restructure and revive or, simply die. I'm done with bailouts, didn't support the recent one. I certainly didn't support the chosen One either.

 

Careful, we're slipping into politics here...

[MiCarl]

 

Also, the Execs stretched the company too thin, reckless expansion. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

 

A lot of the problem is the excessive focus on short term results. When gas and money were cheap the SUVs kept them alive (barely).

 

You can largely thank the big investors (especially mutual funds) for the short term focus. The only thing that matters is this quarter's numbers - the future be damned.

 

As someone pointed out earlier the country has been on a borrowing binge. At some point the bill needs to be paid. Throwing around government money delays the inevitable, makes the problem larger and saddles the poor suckers that lived within their means with the bill.

[MikeM8560]

Sounds just like the banks did to get that mortgages. Let them who done wrong go under. Why should my tax money help a bank that was greedy or a person who KNOWLINGLY took on a mortgage they could not afford. No tears being shed here. By the way, dontcha think the 0% financing by the auto industry had something to do with the trouble they have now????? As I said, no tears here!!! Let them eat cake!!!!!!

I agree

 

Im just glad all my stuff is paid for. but for my utilities food and taxes.

Edited November 21, 2008 by MikeM8560

[FROG MAN]

Merry Christmas Wall Street! I gave you a new Harley to ride in the spring and a new house to put the #@!# thing in since then.My retirement planner says I can now retire when I'm 110.A financial analyst who has a very solid track record at predictions says Depression 2 in 2011. I never seen one so guess we got an education coming. I still got my grandpa's plows just need some mules to pull them.

[RoadKill]

I honestly don't believe that failure of the gov't to give "relief" to the Big 3 (guess we're going to have to stop calling them by that name!) will mean the end of the American auto industry. We are hearing a bunch of scare stories right now that are meant to panic all of us into calling our Representatives and telling them to support this "bail out". I don't buy it....if the automakers go into Chapter 11 it will NOT mean that they shut down and put everyone out of work. That isn't what happened when the major airlines filed bankruptcy and it won't happen now. The chapter 11 filing will simply allow, no FORCE, the automakers to reorganize both their management and their debt. They will continue to operate.

I know that the union rank and file doesn't want this to happen because their contracts would be voided and subject to the approval of the bankruptcy court. Which, in my opinion would be a good thing. Some outside authority needs to oversee the union contracts, the management pay and benefits, the entire operations of our auto makers and get this wobbling industry back in balance.

 

No, letting them "fail" won't cause the catastrophe that some are trying to make us believe. It WILL force a major change on the industry, which is really what this is all about. But unless this change comes, and soon, it's all going down anyway. Patching the problem with money will only allow the same old management attitudes, union demands, marketing-driven operations that got the whole industry into this mess.

VERY WELL SAID. I AGREE 110%

[Grandpagak]

Sounds just like the banks did to get that mortgages. Let them who done wrong go under. Why should my tax money help a bank that was greedy or a person who KNOWLINGLY took on a mortgage they could not afford. No tears being shed here. By the way, dontcha think the 0% financing by the auto industry had something to do with the trouble they have now????? As I said, no tears here!!! Let them eat cake!!!!!!

 

 

i have to agree with this line of thinking.. i was one of these statistics, kinda.. no body's fault but mine.. end of story..

[Marcarl]

When Israel was a young nation, way back before Christ, God put some rules in place, one of which was that every 7 years the land would rest and everyone was to have a year off. Then every 50 years, that was right after year 49 (7x7) it would be a year of Jubilee, meaning that everything was returned to the original owner, no more debts, no more owing things, back to square one and a clean slate.

Something rings a bell with me here, don't know what it is exactly yet, or maybe I'm just hearing things again.

[Roadhand]

I am one for helping others. always have been, always will be.

But not handouts.

I don't give money to people who stand on the side of the road and ask for money. If they were making an effort, it would be different, but I don't just hand over my money to someone who is doing nothing more than sticking their hand out.

 

I look at the "big 3", HD, all of them asking you & me for $

I say, make an effort and we will consider it but don't just stand there with your hand out.

These bailouts are just allowing these companies to continue the way they have been spending until they piss away this money then where will they be. Askng for more and not learned anything.

I agree, it is going to be a rough time for all of us and we will need to give others a helping hand when needed but we don't need our government giving hand outs of our money to "make the economy better" when all it leads to is more spending.

Not the right thing to do.

[paperboy]

No matter where you stand on the bailout in the end it will affect every last one of us, that means the pain will eventually trickle down or up depending on your situation and where you are on the economic ladder. To those who say let them fail and those who say help them out get ready to secure the fort, it's going to get ugly.

[Older...]

No matter where you stand on the bailout in the end it will affect every last one of us, that means the pain will eventually trickle down or up depending on your situation and where you are on the economic ladder. To those who say let them fail and those who say help them out get ready to secure the fort, it's going to get ugly.

 

Personal responsibility.

If you didn't live by it, then pay the price.

 

Come on down to our level. The wife and I have been responsible.

 

You can't hurt us!

 

"If you can't give it away, you don't possess it, it possesses you."