The Mighty GM

[FROG MAN]

I never thought I would see the day when GM common stock traded for $3.02 a share. Some forecasters have it now as worthless and dropping to zero without a bail out. Our prayers for all you guys working in and for the auto industry. With two or three thousand dollars added to the price of every vehicle just to pay for the benefits of those already retired and current high cost of labor it must be tough to be competitive.

 

I buy Chevy trucks as my first choice of vehicle. My life style demands it and crossing this creek yearly rules out anything smaller. Getting in and out in the winter is a 4x4 necessity. I have been driving Ford F150's for over 25 years on the job and they are good to.If the price of gas gets to high I park my truck and ride the scoot.

 

Many retired neighbors around WV worked in the auto industry in Ohio and moved back home to retire. Seeing GM stock drop to a 60 year low has us all wondering about the industries future. This is not a political thread but a Government bailout looks inevitable.Not sure it would do any good but who knows.The question is what will we all be driving in the future? Maybe UPS will deliver my vehicle kit in the mail. I can put it together, shove an ear of corn in it and fire it up.

[Skid]

........The question is what will we all be driving in the future? ...

 

A First Gen......

[Redneck]

I really feel for the people who are being effected in this crisis. It is going to be a difficult road to recovery. I believe the workers through their unions have brought much of this on themselves the companys can't change the way they do business to stay competitive. I'm sure there is plenty of blame on the management end as well. I don't want my money going to any business that is going broke if I run my business into the ground they are not going to bail me out and I would not ask for it ether.

Good luck to all who are effected in the auto industry and all others.

[ken]

I really feel for the people who are being effected in this crisis. It is going to be a difficult road to recovery. I believe the workers through their unions have brought much of this on themselves the companys can't change the way they do business to stay competitive. I'm sure there is plenty of blame on the management end as well. I don't want my money going to any business that is going broke if I run my business into the ground they are not going to bail me out and I would not ask for it ether.

Good luck to all who are effected in the auto industry and all others.

 

I agree, I think we all knew this was going to happen! We just did not know when it was going to hit the fan. Well now it's here and there are alot of us being effected. I'm a police officer and think my job is safe. But I drive truck part-time. Over the last four year I was able to drive 2-3 day per week. Over the last 2 months I've been behind the wheel maybe 6 times. I called the company yesterday to see how things were going and was told they could not find runs for 18 full time driver! WOW! thats about 1/3 of the fleet. It looks like I may have to find a new home for my 2008 HD Ultra. I've always depended on the part time job to make the payment. Lesson learned.

[oldandcrotchety]

I really feel for the people who are being effected in this crisis. It is going to be a difficult road to recovery. I believe the workers through their unions have brought much of this on themselves the companys can't change the way they do business to stay competitive. I'm sure there is plenty of blame on the management end as well. I don't want my money going to any business that is going broke if I run my business into the ground they are not going to bail me out and I would not ask for it ether.

Good luck to all who are effected in the auto industry and all others.

 

Absolutely right!!! On the news the other day they said that auto workers were drawing $77.00 an hour when you count both wages and benefits. One thing that I hear lately is "They're too big to let fail". Why? If they go belly up, how is that any different that Studebaker, Nash, Hudson, Packard, or any of a number of others? Isn't that the way capitalism works? You're either able to compete or not. I hate to see people lose their jobs, but usually after the dust settles, the market is better for it. Makes the ones that are left become more competitive.

[Venturous Randy]

There was a time when these companies were not run by "bean counters". The decisions were made that were for the long term, not for short term gains that turned into big bonuses. I can understand why the auto industry workers wanted their share when the top management was getting bonuses that were absolutely astronomical. But, sooner or later, it will catch up to the company and with GM, I believe it is as we speak.

RandyA

[mraf]

Losing your job is never a good thing. But the wages that auto employees receive have been unrealistic. The blame falls all across the board. Mostly on the corporate executives that failed to realize that gas guzzling cars are not what we as Americans wanted. I for one do not like funding big oil if it comes from countries that hate. The cheaper gas at the pumps now could change quickly.

On another note, does this mean the end of the Mouse and the Rat motors? Say it isn't so!

[FROG MAN]

MSNBC news is reporting that GM has acknowledged bankruptcy is inevitable and may file by end of this year. Not sure if Ford and Chrysler is fairing much better. $77.00 an hour HOLY COW!!!

[Bummer]

I'm laid off from Navistar's Powerstroke Diesel plant in Indy. Might get called back this week, might not.

 

The President of the company got a $2 million bonus for coming up with the company slogan. "Bold." Seriously, that's the stupidest @*% thing I've ever heard. Which is a very bold thing to say. Probably not what they had in mind.

 

On the other hand the Union has spent years protecting old timers who find a corner and sleep. They're still trying to get rid of one of 'em in my shop (powerhouse).

 

On the other other hand it's really hard to compete with people who make $10 a week and pay a penny for a gallon of milk.

 

Oh, and no, I don't get $77 an hour even with benefits. We're just a parts supplier so we're way below that. (Don't we wish.)

[royalstarjac]

The writing has been on the wall since the '70s. The companies and the Union failed to heed the message. Any bailout would just be more down the tube.-Jack

[Condor]

$77.00 an hour HOLY COW!!!

 

Yeah, that's more than I made in the last 2 weeks!!!!!!!!

[KiteSquid]

I blame it on some poor decisions on what to build and market, and on the unions.

 

 

At my last job, if I were to join a union I would be punished by death...

 

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)

 

Article 81—Conspiracy

 

Text. “Any person subject to this chapter who conspires with any other person to commit an offense under this chapter shall, if one or more of the conspirators does an act to effect the object of the conspiracy, be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

 

Elements.

 

(1) That the accused entered into an agreement with one or more persons to commit an offense under the code; and

 

(2) That, while the agreement continued to exist, and while the accused remained a party to the agreement, the accused or at least one of the co-conspirators performed an overt act for the purpose of bringing about the object of the conspiracy.

 

 

ART. 94. MUTINY OR SEDITION

 

 

a) Any person subject to this chapter who--

 

(1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;

 

(2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;

 

(3) fails to do his utmost to prevent and suppress a mutiny or sedition being committed in his presence, or fails to take all reasonable means to inform his superior commissioned officer or commanding officer of a mutiny or sedition which he knows or has reason to believe is taking place, is guilty of a failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition.

 

(b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

 

 

 

I now expect to be flamed! Happy Veterans Day.

[5bikes]

Had 16 GM cars since 1977. They progressively got worse. The last & I do mean last, was a 02 Cadillac Deville. It had 33 problems in 4.5 years and we lost $35,000. Got a Honda Accord 2 years ago and still have not taken it in for anything. (American built by the way)

[Freebird]

I was talking to a truck driver last week. He drives for FedX and told me that a lot of the large trucking companies are laying drivers off. He also told me that DHL is completely giving up on the US market. The DHL part really doesn't surprise me. I've NEVER had a good experience with their service.

[BuddyRich]

So, should I go lookin for a really good deal on a GMC pickup ?

The Dodges were 14k off msrp. Makes me wonder how much they really make on 1 vehicle all the way down the chain .

 

[flb_78]

I blame the Unions and Management. It wasn't too long ago Ford hired and fired a president within 6 months and he walked away with over 35 million.

 

The union boys are averaging 77-78 an hour INCLUDING benefits such as health insurance and retirement pension. The unions also saw to it that even when members are layed off, the members still receive pay and benefits.

 

I heard on the radio that the average pay for a non-union Toyota worker was around 48/hour including benefits and that the average wage across the nation for manual labor was around 28/hour with benefits.

 

The Unions and the (mis)Management combined have caused these great companies to fall. Same with the banks and AIG and the other numerous factions that are falling and everyone walks away with pockets full of cash except for the consumers.

[Richb]

I don't want to see anybody ( union or not) lose their job. But common sense dictates that EVERY job has a maximum dollar value. Also, I would never take away someones current benefit plain, ie., a retired employee should get the benefits they were promised. Having said that, I think private industry (GM) and goverment jobs need to change the benefit structure for NEW HIRES. This way, currents agreements are not adversely effected and yet, new hires fully understand the pay and benefits of a potential employer. Then they can decide if it's a job they want. BTW, when I say government jobs, I mean political positions too. Counselman, Mayor, Govoner, Senator, etc. No more pensions. Let them risk their money in a 401K like everyone else!!

[Snarley Bill]

darn i never figured i made that much as an auto worker. i worked my ass off as an auto worker for thirty years, can't hardly walk, backs shot, worked 12 hrs a day 7 days a week out side , no weather clause most of the years i was there. the rest of the time i was layed off due to recessions, ain't much left of this old fart physically, i hurt from head to foot 24 ,seven. i earned my money and i earned this great retirement. no one ever gave me nothin and i never asked for nothin. i worked alot harder than fat butt ted kennedy ever did in his life and most of the people like him. i deserved what i earned.and i don't owe no one any apologies for what i got. i ain't lazy and i will take on any task. sorry i just had to air that out. get tired of people telling me it's my fault the economies screwed up. snarley bill

[Older...]

5 dictionary results for: capitalism

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This cap⋅i⋅tal⋅ism

 

   /ˈkæphttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngɪhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngtlˌɪzhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif [kap-i-tl-iz-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] Show IPA Pronunciation http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif

–noun an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

[MikeM8560]

I hate to see people lose their jobs, but usually after the dust settles, the market is better for it. Makes the ones that are left become more competitive.

 

Its like the marine industry. alot of builders are going away also. no bailouts there.

the prices of things just kept going up and has been unrealistic.

[bryan52577]

darn i never figured i made that much as an auto worker. i worked my ass off as an auto worker for thirty years, can't hardly walk, backs shot, worked 12 hrs a day 7 days a week out side , no weather clause most of the years i was there. the rest of the time i was layed off due to recessions, ain't much left of this old fart physically, i hurt from head to foot 24 ,seven. i earned my money and i earned this great retirement. no one ever gave me nothin and i never asked for nothin. i worked alot harder than fat butt ted kennedy ever did in his life and most of the people like him. i deserved what i earned.and i don't owe no one any apologies for what i got. i ain't lazy and i will take on any task. sorry i just had to air that out. get tired of people telling me it's my fault the economies screwed up. snarley bill

 

BILL I AGREE WITH YOU 100%! Now with that said there is the other side and the other people that "ABUSED" the system & union rights. I took a job with John Deere about 8 years ago. Had the job for 8 months before I quit. Under the "NEW JOHN DEERE" union contract the workers "ME" could only make a total of $29,780.00 a year base pay (no overtime included). NO benefits when I would retire. All that was fine with me too!

 

What was not fine with me was the "old timer" next to me would make his rate (which was WAY DIFFERENT than my set up) and lay against his welder and sleep for 4 to 6 hours a day! EVERY DAY! And he made $110,000 a year! The company could NOT do anything to him cause he had his rate done.

 

Even THAT was not the reason I quit. I may be dumb but I am not stupid, at some point in the future there will be more "young" employee's than the "old timers". Most of the "young" guys felt the "old guys" sold them out. So there will be a new contract come up at some point and the company will say "Darn we wish we could give you a $2.00 an hour raise but we have to pay for all those retiree's benefits that you DON"T get". "Well GEE, look here those benefits are up for VOTE also?" Myself, I was not going to cut anyone's throat for a JOB! That is why I quit.

 

But there were many more than one that did not work near as hard as you or I, some were good and I am still, to this day, good friends with. The others.....well there are the ABUSERS of any system!

 

Just my worth,

Bryan

[FutureVentures]

Yet another possible bailout, due to Mgmt. mis-management? Say it ain't so.

 

Snarley Bill, it ain't your fault:

You "get tired of people telling me it's my fault the economies screwed up"

 

You took a job that was offered and worked your A off apparently, most people can't find fault with that.

 

At the same time, I spent a year working for the Teamsters part time (USMC full time) and I could NOT believe the waste, the sloth, the indifference to success. Ten guys to do a 3 man job, then we sat for 45 minutes with nothing to do every hour, because our jobs were protected.

 

Like a forest, it's often best to let it burn to the ground and let the new growth start.

 

If we keep rewarding stupidity: AIG, Freedie Mac, Countrywide, GM...the stupidity will continue.

 

I am a firm believer in competition, like survival of the fittest, weeding out the weak, allowing the strong, the smart, to survive. If we keep bailing out the weak and the stupid, that's all we'll end up with.

 

We didn't bail out the Buggy whip makers, did we?

 

Ya know, I think many of us are getting angry cause, guess what, we can't ride! 27 degrees and raining when I awoke this morning AND, it isn't winter yet.

 

Well, time for another beer!

[Snarley Bill]

i'm not sticking up for unions, they have lots of faults, i'm just standing by what i know i did. by the way , my pension is $1200.00 a month, and i have to pay monthly for part of my insurance. so i am not getting rich off my pension. all these figures they put out are rediculous. in that case anyone that gets benefits makes what i did or more cuz even non union people get big benefits. bill

[Gary N.]

You said a mouth full Bill. There's dead wood and dead beats in every business. Don't paint everyone with the same brush guys.

Thirty years on an assembly line, like a robot, to get a meager pension. Lot of guys can't do it.

[Venturous Randy]

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that if a company had a union, it is probably because they needed a union.

RandyA

Edited November 12, 2008 by Venturous Randy