Nitrogen in tires

[Kidh2]

Why Inflate with Nitrogen?

Compressed air is your tire’s worst enemy. Air is about 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other. Nitrogen is inert, non combustible and non corrosive. Oxygen, on the other hand, is immensely destructive to rubber and other tire materials. As soon as a tire is manufactured and exposed to air, the effects of “oxidation” begin to deteriorate the rubber. Over time it loses its elasticity and strength, just like an old rubber band you’ve probably found around your home. This same process occurs in tires inflated with air as the oxygen attacks the rubber molecules, working from the inside out, until the oxygen, and its destructive properties, permeates the tire structure and ultimately the tread.

The purity of nitrogen available from nitrogen generators generally ranges from 95% (low purity) to 99.9% (high purity). A minimum of 95% purity in the serviced tire is the minimum allowable purity that must be maintained in the tire to enjoy the benefits that nitrogen provides.

 

 

Tire Pressure loss:

1. Permeation. Permeation is the normal process by which the air in a tire bleeds through the tire’s body or carcass. It is typical for an "air" filled tire to lose 1-2 psi of pressure every month through normal permeation whereas it can take several months for a NitroFilled tire to lose a single pound of pressure.
   
2. Temperature Change. All gases expand and contract with temperature. If you live in an area that experiences dramatic temperature changes, you will have to adjust your tire pressure accordingly. Typically you will only have to adjust your tire pressure "up", adding pressure as ambient temperatures decrease. Count on losing about 2% of your total tire pressure for every 10 degrees in temperature reduction.
   

Unless you have a readily available free source of nitrogen, it ain't worth the money.

[N3FOL]

NASCAR has been running Nitrogen in their tires at least since the mid 90's. That's why they can get away with adding 1/4lb of pressure. Nitrogen is predictable because it doesn't have humidity in it that compressed air does. So when they put a certain amount in the tire they know what it will expand to.

 

Nitrogen does expand as does compressed air, it's just more predictable. If you watch the beginning of a tire run in NASCAR they always talk about how the cars are hard to handle until the pressures come up in the tires. Changing the tire pressure is just like changing the spring rate of the car.

 

I'm sure the other racing series use Nitrogen also. D'em rednecks couldn't have figgured that out on their own.

I just had a feeling that NASCAR had thought about this before it is discussed here at VentureRider.org.

 

I check my car tires and bike tires religiously every other week. I don't know if I am ready to add Nitrogen on my tires...perhaps once the idea is widely practiced by motorist, I will go ahead and follow the rest.

[mbrood]

With the race cars, I don't believe it's a choice... you CAN'T have compressed AIR in the pits... nowhere near the fuels and the cars... hot engines, exotic fuel and an "oxygen source" just isn't allowed... so nitrogen is a natural.

 

There are other issues for regular cars and trucks but on the race course it is all about safety.

[N3FOL]

There has been a lot of talk in the Kawasaki forum for a long time now regarding Nitrogen gas added in tires. There are a number of users that support the idea, but it is just not practical yet. If I only own a gas station, I would add a coin operated machine (self-service) that will fill tires with Nitrogen as allowed by law.

[flb_78]

With the race cars, I don't believe it's a choice... you CAN'T have compressed AIR in the pits... nowhere near the fuels and the cars... hot engines, exotic fuel and an "oxygen source" just isn't allowed... so nitrogen is a natural.

 

There are other issues for regular cars and trucks but on the race course it is all about safety.

 

Really? then how do they run those air guns for the tires?

[Flyinfool]

Each one of those "air" guns are on its own nitrogen tank.

 

When I used to race cars we noticed a big difference in change of tire pressure during a race with air vs nitrogen. Air would gain 5-7 lbs during a run and nitrogen would gain 2 lbs.

In a race condition you can feel a 1/4 lb change in pressure.

With the race tires the side walls are so thin to save weight that it is one giant leak.

If you spray a tire with soapy water it turns into a big white donuts. The tire will be flat within 12 hours. Air vs nitrogen made no difference in that respect.

 

A big bottle of nitrogen cost around $30 to refill and lasted for 7-8 weeks of filling all of the race tires and also acting as the "air" supply for all air tools in the pits. There were 3 sets of tires plus spares for each night of racing that all had to be filled and changed from that tank.

[N3FOL]

Now that is something that I didn't even think about...Nitrogen powered air tools. For $30 bucks per tank, homeowners may be able to store one in their garages.

[flb_78]

Each one of those "air" guns are on its own nitrogen tank.

 

Learn something new everyday!

 

http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2008/05/05/pit-road-explained-tools-of-the-trade/

[Tartan Terror]

Really? then how do they run those air guns for the tires?

 

Also on Nitogen.

[Tartan Terror]

They use nitogen in the tires as it is an inert gas and less prone to expansion an contraction. One other thing is that the Nitrogen is filtered and dried when it is conpressed into the bottles as well. The moisture is really the factor in the equation that makes the real difference in the expansion and also the big factor that will affect the airguns as well. These guys are like cowboys from the wild west and come with their own guns. Regular compressed air would be fine but why if its better for the guns.

[Captainkirk]

Nitrogen contains far less moisture than compressed air; not a big deal on tube-type tires, but when running tubeless alloy rims, certainly corrosion is a real factor. The reason jet aircraft run nitrogen is twofold- first, at altitude, the moisture in shop air will freeze. This wreaks havoc on wheel balance, for one. Second, on a hot touchdown, the ice/moisture can actually boil, turning to steam and causing excess pressure and other problems. How does this affect your Venture? Aside from the corrosion issues, probably not at all. But, on the other hand, a tank of nitrogen, even a small one, would last most riders a lifetime of riding. Something to ponder.......

[raceman62race]

Just some info for what it's worth:

I had some issues with Bridgestone M/C tires. I contacted Bridgestone and I was told that a M/C tire, on average, will loose about 1 PSI per month and about 1 PSI for every 10 deg F of ambient temp drop. I dont' have a clue as to how nitrogen would react but this info came from the manufacturer.

[Kidh2]

Just some info for what it's worth:

I had some issues with Bridgestone M/C tires. I contacted Bridgestone and I was told that a M/C tire, on average, will loose about 1 PSI per month and about 1 PSI for every 10 deg F of ambient temp drop. I dont' have a clue as to how nitrogen would react but this info came from the manufacturer.

 

1. Permeation. Permeation is the normal process by which the air in a tire bleeds through the tire’s body or carcass. It is typical for an "air" filled tire to lose 1-2 psi of pressure every month through normal permeation whereas it can take several months for a NitroFilled tire to lose a single pound of pressure.
   
2. Temperature Change. All gases expand and contract with temperature. If you live in an area that experiences dramatic temperature changes, you will have to adjust your tire pressure accordingly. Typically you will only have to adjust your tire pressure "up", adding pressure as ambient temperatures decrease. Count on losing about 2% of your total tire pressure for every 10 degrees in temperature reduction.
   

[dynodon]

I have been taking care of old cars for decades. Most cars had their original wheels and many had their original TIRES after 20+ years.

 

I have NEVER seen any corrosion on the inside portion of a steel wheel (or aluminum for that matter). any moisture in your tires air is so miminal that it won't be a problem.

 

Pure oxygen is a big corrosive, but the smaller amount in regular air is not so much. Yes, tires do oxidize as does paint, but SUN is a much bigger factor in tire deterioration than anything else.

 

Since I have taken 20 to 30 year old tires off steel wheels and found no real problems inside (the inside of the tire is still soft and pliable, even if the outside is rough, cracked and hard), I doubt that there is any problem in a typical tire on a car or motorcycle that is lucky to last 3-5 years.

 

Nitrogen is a benefit to racers, but of almost no benefit to the daily driver.

 

It scares me that people believe the hype and once they pay for the nitrogen, they quit checking their tires air pressure! On a motorcycle this can be a killer. ON a car it CAN be a killer.

 

Use regular air, check it often and feel good about your environment, pocketbook and your vehicles.

[N3FOL]

Use regular air, check it often and feel good about your environment, pocketbook and your vehicles.

 

+1. Just regular atmospheric gas for my tires for now.

[Tartan Terror]

Two things to ponder. The air you breath is 78 percent nitrogen. In order to get as close to 100 percent nitrogen in the tire you first need to get all the regular air out which will require a vaccum before inflating. Its not as simple as just putting the nitogen hose on and filling away. You will get a higher percentage of nitrogen but still no where near 100 per.

 

Also you can have moisture in nitogen too just as easy as you can have very little moisture in air filled tire that has been inflated with a proper air line dryer. Kind of like the type you have in a body shop.

[gunboat]

hay forrest

do you guys at your shop ues a AIR LINE DRYER ? just had a ?

best reguards

don c.

[gunboat]

o by the way those nitogen cylinders the air tools are hooked up to have between 2,200- 2,500 psi. the tire pressure on big iron aircraft runs from 200 to 210 psi.

don c.

[saddlebum]

I have a question about the nitrogen filled tires. Prior to putting the nitrogen in, does the installer pull a vaccum on the tire??? If he doesn't then you do not have a pure nitrogen enviroment. There will be some "air" allowed in when the tire is installed. I realize this is a small amount, but still, it would not be pure nitrogen. Wouldn't this be enough to dilute the nitrogen and cause it to seep out???

I found this in our gm service bulletin. { Even the smallest amount of air allowed into a nitrogen filled tire nullifies any perceived advantage of putting Nitrogen in the tire} it goes on to further say that, GM does not endorse nor discourage the use of Nitrogen in tires.

As far as being better for the enviroment, I would have to say, Campared to what ? The air we put in, which is the same air we breath ?

For me air is readily available and has worked well.

One technical note Nitrogen does expand and contract at a fixed rate, were as air will compress and expand at an unfixed rate, Which is why nitrogen is used in gas shocks.

[Al Bates]

Working with aircraft, we did use nitrogen in tires and accumulators etc. Because nitrogen was some what explosive we switch to super dry air. Nitrogen work well but was not worth the risk. We did have a few incidents with nitrogen that did cause damage. A few years later we did go back to nitrogen.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Al Bates

[jrsc4excel]

Nitrogen does not support combustion. It is what is called an inert gas. Here is a link to a site that will give you all the info you could ever want. http://www.getnitrogen.org/

[woolwich]

Regular air is fine, I find it hard that people here have said they check the air on their nitro filled tires and they never change. Every time you check the air pressure you lose air. This whole thing is nothing but a gimmick, I see forty to fifty wheels everyday and it doesn't matter what they are filled with corrosion exist along the bead and chromed wheels are junk mopar and gm have to have the worst rims on the planet.

I know of one shop that puts on a green cap and charges customers for nitrogen yet uses regular air, glad I'm not paying $50 for plastic green caps, oh and the corrosion of the valve cores in sensors happens with air or nitrogen.

[CMIKE]

I guess if you were like the majority of the folks that ride around on low of flat tires...it would be the thing to have. Them folks need all the help they can to keep the tires with air in them. I check my tires religiously on all my vehicles. I got 92,000 miles out of a set of tires on my VW. I do not use nitrogen.

I know some folks that own a fleets of trucks say they have saved money by putting this in their tires. Again...if you check your tires regularly...you know you have a low tire or slight leak before you get to work or out on the road. I want to know that before I leave the house.

[elag]

I have a question about the nitrogen filled tires. Prior to putting the nitrogen in, does the installer pull a vaccum on the tire??? If he doesn't then you do not have a pure nitrogen enviroment. There will be some "air" allowed in when the tire is installed. I realize this is a small amount, but still, it would not be pure nitrogen. Wouldn't this be enough to dilute the nitrogen and cause it to seep out???

 

 

Personally I feel this is just a marketing gimmic to increase profits. If a person properly maintains their bike, you will get the same results with regular compressed air.

 

If they don't vacuum the air out. Some simple math with tell you that it's more then a small amount of air. Atmospheric pressure is 14 PSI which is already in the tire when it is mounted. A tire inflated to 28 PSI (air guage only reads pressure above atmospheric) would have twice the amount of nitrogen as the air already in the tire. So that would work to be 30% air. So your point is valid. There is a significant amount of air still in the tire.

[elag]

Why Inflate with Nitrogen?

Compressed air is your tire’s worst enemy. Air is about 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other. Nitrogen is inert, non combustible and non corrosive. Oxygen, on the other hand, is immensely destructive to rubber and other tire materials. As soon as a tire is manufactured and exposed to air, the effects of “oxidation” begin to deteriorate the rubber. Over time it loses its elasticity and strength, just like an old rubber band you’ve probably found around your home. This same process occurs in tires inflated with air as the oxygen attacks the rubber molecules, working from the inside out, until the oxygen, and its destructive properties, permeates the tire structure and ultimately the tread.

The purity of nitrogen available from nitrogen generators generally ranges from 95% (low purity) to 99.9% (high purity). A minimum of 95% purity in the serviced tire is the minimum allowable purity that must be maintained in the tire to enjoy the benefits that nitrogen provides.

 

 

 

Tire Pressure loss:

1. Permeation. Permeation is the normal process by which the air in a tire bleeds through the tire’s body or carcass. It is typical for an "air" filled tire to lose 1-2 psi of pressure every month through normal permeation whereas it can take several months for a NitroFilled tire to lose a single pound of pressure.
   
2. Temperature Change. All gases expand and contract with temperature. If you live in an area that experiences dramatic temperature changes, you will have to adjust your tire pressure accordingly. Typically you will only have to adjust your tire pressure "up", adding pressure as ambient temperatures decrease. Count on losing about 2% of your total tire pressure for every 10 degrees in temperature reduction.
   

Unless you have a readily available free source of nitrogen, it ain't worth the money.

 

Problem with that theory is, I've never seen a tire rot before it's worn out anyway. Maybe if the vehicle is stored for 10 or 15 years before driving, it might make a difference.