Buy a new bike with carbs?

[keithert]

I had an RSV from 1999 to 2003 for 48,000 miles. I never had any issues with the carbs gumming up during storage or getting badly out of balance. In the next few years I may buy another touring bike and really did like my Venture but I'm having a hard time with the thought of buying a new bike that isn't fuel injected. I had FI on my 02 Nomad and had no issues with it. But like I said I didn't have issues with the RSV either. My current bike is a Vulcan 1500 carb model. On that the carb doesn't bother me much because there is only 1 of them. The Venture has a lot of carbs to have issues with if you have issues. How expensive is it for a dealer to remove and clean the carbs if needed? On the Vulcan it cost $250 for a cleaning and rejetting. How common or rare is it for a RSV to have carb issues? Would you let it being carburated keep you from buying one in this day and age of most new bikes being injected?

[Tom]

I have an 04 with never a problem but I run seafoam thru it about every 6 months..I am waiting to see if Yamaha comes out with a more up to date bike in 2010..if not will be lloking at other bikes.That does not mean they are a bad bike but gauges ,FI and other things would be nice.

[pegscraper]

You never had any problems with the carbs in the RSV. They require only some stabilizer in the winter so they don't gum up. Throttle bodies would also, to keep the injectors from clogging. So what reason is there to wish for FI? Why does the fuel delivery system need the added complexity of having to be operated by electronics, when it can operate just fine all by itself? Electronic parts could last forever and cause no problems, or they can fail at any time. You never know. New electronic parts can be bad right out of the box and cause an immense amount of frustration. I've seen it happen, more than once.

 

Having a throttle plate right in each intake runner with no other intakes attached to it, is ideal. One carb per cylinder is an excellent arrangement, and FI does not outperform it. What other reasons are there to want FI? So you don't have to operate a choke? Why don't you put an automatic transmission in too, then you don't have to trouble yourself to shift either.

 

I'll stay away from FI as long as I can, and I'll be dragged into using it kicking and screaming. I've had all the arguments about FI being "better" thrown at me many many times for many many years, and I have yet to hear any real believable evidence, so the rest of you might as well just save your breath here. All FI means to me is that someone else is dictating how my bike is going to run. I'll run carbs until there are no parts left to rebuild them anymore.

 

[SilvrT]

"Today's cars use a fuel-injection system that allows the engine to produce more horsepower with less fuel. In turn, less gasoline is dumped through the engine and expelled out the exhaust system, creating a cleaner burn with less pollution."

 

"Butch Bass: A properly sized manifold and carb can make as much absolute power as EFI. Although EFI tends to produce a broader torque curve, ultimate horsepower is simply a case of flow and distribution."

 

"Jim McFarland: If you boil everything down to combustion efficiency, ultimately full-sequential port-EFI systems will make the most power. Carbs are not good providers of mixture quality when tuning one cylinder at a time."

 

"Warren Johnson: Properly tuned, carburetors make more peak power than EFI in a Pro Stock engine. A carb’s pressure differential atomizes the gas a lot better than spraying fuel through an orifice. But EFI has a broader powerband and superior cylinder-to-cylinder fuel distribution. The 1,100- to 1,300-cfm dual carbs are good only over a narrow range, about 1,500 rpm at most. EFI performs well over 2,000 rpm or more. On average, if optimized, both systems perform about the same as far as how fast you get down the track. However, the EFI system is much easier to tune than a carburetor."

 

"Butch Bass: EFI simply enables the engine to be more efficient throughout the rpm range. From cold-starting to throttle response, a properly designed EFI setup is hard to beat. Engine management is the key to overall engine performance in the future, and when you control fuel and spark together, you have the ultimate tuning capability."

 

"Mark Hamel: Fuel injection does everything right--improves driveability, makes more torque, solves cold-start problems, lowers emissions, and improves gas mileage. You can make 450 hp and drive the car every day. Myron Cottrell: EFI is for the guy who wants to learn. It is for the guy involved in the technology of today."

 

What kind of features does EFI offer over carbs? Well, simply put: a carburetor just sits there. A typical GM EFI computer system can be programmed in the following areas:

 

 

 

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Fuel Delivery based on MAP(Manifold Pressure), TP (Throttle Position), RPM, ECT (coolant temp)

 

 

 

 

 

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Spark Advance based on MAP, TP, RPM, ECT

 

 

 

 

 

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TCC Lockup characteristics based on TP, VSS(Vehicle Speed)

 

 

 

 

 

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Highway Mode Air/Fuel Ratio based on MAP, TP, VSS, Time

 

 

 

 

 

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Open Loop A/F Ratio and Power Enrichment Changes

 

 

 

 

 

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Closed Loop parameters

 

 

 

 

 

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Manifold Air Temp influence on timing and A/F ratio

 

 

 

 

 

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Idle Speed based on ECT

 

 

 

 

 

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Transmission Shift firmness and Shift Points (electronic automatics)

 

 

 

 

 

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Cooling Fan(s) Operation besed on ECT, VSS

 

 

 

 

 

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Trouble Code Parameters

 

 

 

and Much, Much More....

 

 

The Facts:

..............................Carbs ..........EFI

Winter Drivability: ........................Poor ........................Excellent

Summer Drivebility: ......................Excellent .................Excellent

Skill Level Required: ....................Average ...................Advanced

Initial Cost: ................................$200+ ........................$1000 (typical)

Long-term cost: ...........................High ........................Manageable

Performance: ............................Good ..........................Better

Turbo-compatible: ......................Poor ..........................Excellent

Supercharger-compatible: ..........Depends ....................Excellent

N2O-compatible: ........................Good .........................Good

Emissions Friendly: ....................Poor ..........................Excellent

"Wow" Factor: ............................Fair ...........................Excellent

Reliability: ..................................Good .........................Excellent

Fuel Distribution: ........................Fair ...........................Excellent(Port and Direct)

Intake Configurations: ................Limited .......................Unlimited (Port and Direct)

..............................Pros: ...............6 .............................12

[N3FOL]

I used to have a Vulcan 900 and that is FI. Never had problems with it for the last 25K miles. Now, I just love having carburetors on my bike...carburetors and motorcycles do come hand in hand. On my next tank full, I will add Seafoam as a preventative measure and longer carb life.

[SilvrT]

I didn't write that stuff...just grabbed it off the 'net as a FYI

[bmannon]

having the ability to tune the FI with a computer and not change jets and needles makes me want a FI bike.

[BoomerCPO]

I went from a FI bike to the Venture with carbs. Thanks to the advice of folks here I am sold on SeaFoam and add a bit to every tank of gas on the bike. No carb problems here and the scoot runs like a scalded ape despite the crappy gas we are being sold at a premium.

 

Electronic problems on the road may be a bit more difficult to cope with compared to just tinkering with mechanical carbs IMHO...........

 

I won't walk away from a 3rd Gen Venture tho if it has FI along with other upgrades.

[KiteSquid]

When you go to EFI you can also go to variable valve timing, and there is the key to building an engine that is both powerful and fuel efficient.

 

IF the next generation of Venture has EFI and variable valve timing, I might buy one and sell my current ride/rides for it.

 

All that electronics come at a price, and I for one would be willing to pay it.

 

Just look at the motor in the 2nd gen VMax for the starting point.

[HGWT]

Still no answer to the question of how much to have a dealer clean and adjust the carbs, but I will find out soon I'm sure.

[CrazyHorse]

FI all the way, carbs are to finnicky. You could have multiple maps for performance or economy with the flick of a switch. Never had trouble with FI. No diaphrams,floats, tiny clogged jets, seating them properly, mixture adjustments,needles, etc. or any of the other pain in the butt carb issues.

 

Gotta think its at least $250.00 to do that.

[Freebird]

I agree. I would expect that a dealer will charge at LEAST $250.00 and possibly a bit more. Sorry, I've never had a dealer do it so can't tell you for sure.