mashley Posted October 22, 2008 #1 Posted October 22, 2008 This weekend my father and I visted a local Honda/Yamaha Dealer to have some new Avons balanced on his Valkyrie wheels. While there I was talking to the service manager. We have been friends with this gentleman for awhile. I was discussing with him my new RSTD and about the reaccurring problem with dry hubs and clutch whine. My clutch has not developed the whine yet. He said just wait it will. He told me that he has been fixing them with modified stock clutches for a few years and it seems to do the trick. Back to my original statment. I told him that I had recently taken my bike in to have the rear end cliking fixed. He asked me if I had them check the axle. I told him as far as I know all they did was grease the splines, and it has been working fine. He said he has had many Ventures/RSTD's come in with this problem. After greasing the splines the owner would come back a few months later with same problem. (They are using Moly 60 by the way.) After a while he got to noticing that the axles were bent slightly. He started cheking them when they come in for first go around and noticed that alot of them were not torgued correctly. Yamaha did not give a correct torgue specification for the rear axle and this was causing the axle to get bent slightly. This was not on all, but on alot over the years he stated. He told me to bring it in if I wanted and he would check it for me. Thoght I would pass this on to you guys in case you wanted to check it out.
Eck Posted October 22, 2008 #2 Posted October 22, 2008 QUOTE: After a while he got to noticing that the axles were bent slightly. He started checking them when they come in for first go around and noticed that alot of them were not torgued correctly. Yamaha did not give a correct torgue specification for the rear axle and this was causing the axle to get bent slightly I notice you have an 08 ...I have an 05....and I looked back to 1999 and the rear axle torque has been called out in the manual since 99. Rear axle torque is 110 ft lbs It is in my opinion only here....that it would take one hell of a thump to bend the rear axle on this thing..meaning... the suspension would have to bottom out to where the rear shock would have no more capability of colapsing (completely contracted) where there is NO suspension what so ever..then with this being the case, all the "load carrying" compressive strength would now be directed "upward" or away from the impacting point. With the suspension totally colapsed, the rear shock would not / could not permit the swing arm to move in an upward direction and it would now mean the relevant maximum load is at its shear point on "something"...(something has to give). Possible "giveing points" of failure: The swing arm would either bend ..or the axle holes in it where the axle goes through it would rupture (break off at the weakest point), or the top and or bottom shock mounting areas would bend, or the aluminum rim itself would colapse (bust inward), or the motorcycle itself will move in the opposite direction from the impact. Something is going to fail / give ... I would think, (or guess) that one of these failures would occur WAY BEFORE the rear axle would ..or could ..bend.
pegscraper Posted October 22, 2008 #3 Posted October 22, 2008 If he doesn't think that Y's torque spec for the rear axle is correct, what is he torquing them up to? How is he modifying a stock clutch to get rid of the whine?
mashley Posted October 22, 2008 Author #4 Posted October 22, 2008 I agree with your statment too Eck. Would seem hard for that to happen, I don't know. Just relaying the info I got form the service manager. Like I said I have known him for a while and my father has known him since the '70's. Could have been shooting me a line of crap but as long as yamaha fits the bill to check it out, alright with me. Personally mine has been fine since the splines were lubed.
RSTDdog Posted October 22, 2008 #5 Posted October 22, 2008 My clutch has not developed the whine yet. He said just wait it will. He told me that he has been fixing them with modified stock clutches for a few years and it seems to do the trick. I am interested in knowing more about this?? I have the chirp, more so than the whine.Although in my opinion the chirp at lower rpm becomes a whine at increasing rpm till you hit the point it goes away. It has had the basket replaced once already (recently). I just sing the Jetsons song in my head....... Any idea what he is modifiying on the stock clutches? Can you find out? Alot of people here would be interested in that if he has a solution. Thanks RSTDdog
mashley Posted October 22, 2008 Author #6 Posted October 22, 2008 Pegscraper, I haven't had time to get back with him yet to talk more. But when I find out I will let you guys know. I work 12 hour nights and my off days fluctuate. I would rather let this fellow work on my bike than the guys at the dealer I purchased it from. I asked him about the "I" basket and that is when he brought up the modified stock clutch. Dad was in a hurry to get his bike back together and ride so we headed home.
pegscraper Posted October 22, 2008 #7 Posted October 22, 2008 Twelve hour nights. Ugh! Been there. Hope I don't ever have to do it again.
mashley Posted October 22, 2008 Author #8 Posted October 22, 2008 I signed up for this shift. It was either 12 days on, 2 days off on 8 hour shifts. Or 4 days on, 4 days off on 12 hour shifts. I'm just waiting of someone to retire so I can have day shift.
BigBoyinMS Posted October 22, 2008 #9 Posted October 22, 2008 If this guy has found a whine fix then the Venture world will probably nominate him for a Nobel! I've only got a couple of thousand miles on mine since I got it 3 months ago. The whine is there but hasn't bothered me much. I haven't been around any others to compare it to so I don't really know if it's better or worse than what people complain about. It is starting to bother me though.
Snarley Bill Posted October 22, 2008 #10 Posted October 22, 2008 i may be wrong on this but on one of my bikes , and i think it was my rstd. the axle is'nt actually bent from abuse, it is not machined but looked like it was hot drawn when manufactured. a less expensive way to manufacture them. mine had a slight bow when i checked it on a flat surface. it should pull straight if you torque it to 110 ft. lbs. you have to use a formula multiplying the torque times the thread pitch on the axle and you will find there will be quite a few thousand pounds of linear pull on the axle to straighten it.
Squeeze Posted October 22, 2008 #11 Posted October 22, 2008 i may be wrong on this but on one of my bikes , and i think it was my rstd. the axle is'nt actually bent from abuse, it is not machined but looked like it was hot drawn when manufactured. a less expensive way to manufacture them. mine had a slight bow when i checked it on a flat surface. it should pull straight if you torque it to 110 ft. lbs. you have to use a formula multiplying the torque times the thread pitch on the axle and you will find there will be quite a few thousand pounds of linear pull on the axle to straighten it. Bill's right, in Fact it doesn't matter at all how straight or bent the Axle is. Once the Axle is tightened down, all the Parts through which the Axle goes, be it Collars, Caliper Holder, inner Races of the Bearings are forming a straight Line which is the real 'Axle' on which all the Bearings and the Rim is turning on.
Steve S Posted October 22, 2008 #12 Posted October 22, 2008 QUOTE: After a while he got to noticing that the axles were bent slightly. He started checking them when they come in for first go around and noticed that alot of them were not torgued correctly. Yamaha did not give a correct torgue specification for the rear axle and this was causing the axle to get bent slightly I notice you have an 08 ...I have an 05....and I looked back to 1999 and the rear axle torque has been called out in the manual since 99. Rear axle torque is 110 ft lbs It is in my opinion only here....that it would take one hell of a thump to bend the rear axle on this thing..meaning... the suspension would have to bottom out to where the rear shock would have no more capability of colapsing (completely contracted) where there is NO suspension what so ever..then with this being the case, all the "load carrying" compressive strength would now be directed "upward" or away from the impacting point. With the suspension totally colapsed, the rear shock would not / could not permit the swing arm to move in an upward direction and it would now mean the relevant maximum load is at its shear point on "something"...(something has to give). Possible "giveing points" of failure: The swing arm would either bend ..or the axle holes in it where the axle goes through it would rupture (break off at the weakest point), or the top and or bottom shock mounting areas would bend, or the aluminum rim itself would colapse (bust inward), or the motorcycle itself will move in the opposite direction from the impact. Something is going to fail / give ... I would think, (or guess) that one of these failures would occur WAY BEFORE the rear axle would ..or could ..bend. Yeah, what he said. The axle nut creates a straight pull. There is no way that a direct pull could cause a solid steel shaft to bend due to being overtightened. :no-no-no: At least not under the torque range you are talking about.
hillrider Posted October 22, 2008 #13 Posted October 22, 2008 Yep, it sure would be nice to know if this guy's found a piece of a cure for the whine.
Snarley Bill Posted October 23, 2008 #14 Posted October 23, 2008 Yep, it sure would be nice to know if this guy's found a piece of a cure for the whine. the only absolute cure for the whine would be helical primary gears. big problem there is do to the helical angle of the gears there is a tremendous amount of side deflection on the gears. with the narrow bearing support, on the basket. this is not good. lots of bikes use helical primary gears like suzuki. and from my experience building modified gs 1100 engines, there is side deflection do to the clearance in the basket bearings. so moral of the story is the yammer straight cut gears are the most pracical and long term reliable way to go. straight cut gears ar just noisy. you should here my v-star. bill
hillrider Posted October 23, 2008 #15 Posted October 23, 2008 Maybe I wouldn't like your V-star. Mine (an '06 1100) with stock muffs, is quiet as a church mouse. I can hear the crunching of leaves on back roads. I'm not a fast rider. My 2nd gen isn't as noisy as some, but i rode a fellows 08 model at the cookout the other day. A quiet basket in a glorius thing.
Snarley Bill Posted October 23, 2008 #16 Posted October 23, 2008 Maybe I wouldn't like your V-star. Mine (an '06 1100) with stock muffs, is quiet as a church mouse. I can hear the crunching of leaves on back roads. I'm not a fast rider. My 2nd gen isn't as noisy as some, but i rode a fellows 08 model at the cookout the other day. A quiet basket in a glorius thing. my 1100 v-star was quiet. it may have had helical gears. my 1300 v-star really sings a song. not as high pitched as my royal star was but loud. on the straight cut gears it depends on which side of the tolerance the gear lash is on as to whether it is loud or not. loud or quiet it has no ill effects mechanically.
ronhenry4 Posted October 23, 2008 #17 Posted October 23, 2008 I had the same thing my dealer told me a service bulleton came out about rotating the drive shaft after the 4th time they discovered the rear axel was out of round
OutKast Posted October 24, 2008 #18 Posted October 24, 2008 "out of round" is different than "bent". "out of round" would not straighten itself from the pull of the nut. 110 ft# does seem high to me.
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