Bad regulator /rectifier?

[Guest kcfinfan]

I just bought a r/r on ebay because my battery was not getting the correct voltage and I did the voltage test that was recommended. The bike was running fine at this point, just not charging the battery. (83 Venture) I recieved the used R/R and installed and the battery picked right up. I thought all is well until now the bike seams to be missing and the tach keeps dropping. from the assorted forums I suspected I had a bad TCI or moisture ect. I did the ohms test on the cables. After removing both plugs from the TCI and testing the 6-pin connector's black wire I did not get a connection to ground on the neg battery cable. the 8-pin connector's black wire tested good. I did notice the ground connection would be made through the TCI if the 8-pin was connected to the TCI. Is this Correct? Shouldn't the 6-pin cable be be indpendent and not rely on the TCI to ground the pick up points. Regardless the R/R that I got seemed to cause me problems because once I disconnect it, the bike runs fine again. I could use some help from some one who may have gone thru this already.

[DonB]

Kcfinfan

 

Here's some info that was posted awhile back that might help you. I have a few other articles if you want them.

 

db

=======================================================

Centre Yamamoto

6444 Clark St.

Montreal, QC

H2S 3E6

(514) 273-8879

 

They advertised in the Magazine CYCLE CANADA April 2005 that they could repair 50% of CDI's, TCI's,Digital Igniters ic Ignighters and most non-sealed electronic components.

 

 

==================================================================================================

 

 

The TCI for 83 is different than all later years although there is a way to get around this. Over the years Yamaha kept making improvements to the TCI up until 1990 when they went to a digital TCI. If you find you need a new TCI get the latest model available preferably one for an 89. On an 83 the vacuum hose for the Spark Advance Senser is located on the atmostpheric side of the throttle plate. On all later years this was moved to the vacuum side of rhe throttle plate. All else is the same, so, if you just switch your TCI to a later model your spark will retard when it should advance and advance when it should retard. To get around this you merely have to disconnect the vacuum line from the carburetor and connect it to where you hook up your vacuum line for syncing the carbs. Remove the rubber cap from the brass tube, connect the vacuum line and then take the rubber cap and put it onto the brass nipple on the carb where the vacuum line was orginally connected.

As far as checking the TCI, at the moment there is no way to check these except thru the proccess of elimination. After making sure all connections are clean and tight, the battery fully charged, the pick-ups checked, the coils and wires checked and the spark plugs checked to no avail then you know that the only thing left is the TCI.

I read the other day that someone on this forum was working on some tests for the TCI but at present I don't believe they are available. There used to be a fellow up in Canada who was rebuiling the TCIs but I think he sold his Venture and no longer frequents the Venturer's forum. His name was Dave Watts.

One thing that you should look out for is the electrical system ground. The ignition and charging system on these bikes doesn't use a reguler frame ground. On the negative side of your battery you will notice the large wire going to ground down near the water pump. You should also see a short pig-tail wire coming off the ground wire and plugging into the wiring harness. If this connection is missing or dirty it will affect all of your electronics, especially the TCI and the Stator. Some times when people redo their battery cables they forget about that little pigtail and it MUST be connected.

Dick

 

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I understand that the older TCI units had a whole run or two of poor quality power diodes and the main electronic repairs were replacing these with newer (better) ones. Of course the most common electrical problem is those two connectors getting corroded.

 

I believe GGRABOSE has a good start on testing these units (posted back in July... http://www.venturerider.org/forum/s...php?t=6274&page)

 

(but here's his text

The Easy Way To Test The Tci On The Bike Is As Follows. Tools Required A Digital Volt/ohm Meter I've Seen These Sell At Autoparts ( Walmart) Stores For $10.

 

 

1. With The Engine Off, Key Off, The Small Plug On The Left Houses The Pickup Coil Wiring. The Orange wire On The left Of The Plug is The Coil Commons Or Center Taps. You Can Place The Black Lead Of Your Ohm Meter On Either this terminal or ground And Measure The Pickup Coil Resistance On The Other Four Leads Should Be Around 115 Ohms Or So On Each Terminal. If All Four Of The Pickup Coil Measurements Are Good You Have Just Verified The TCI Inputs Are Not Shorted,the Wiring Harness And Quick Disconnect Plug Is Good, And The Pickup Coils O.k. If Any Reading Other Then This Let Me Know And I'll Tell You What To Look For.

 

2. The Right Side Plug Has TCI Outputs To The Coil Packs. Take Your Ohm Meter And Check Placing The Black Lead On The Red/White wire This Is The Switch Ignition B+ Input. And Measure The Coil Pack Resistance To Each Of The Output Wires I Believe They Are White,Orange,Gray, And Yellow. Each Should Measure About 3 Ohms Or So. You Have Just Verified The Outputs Are Not Open Or Shorted, The Coil Pack Wiring ,Quick Disconnect Plugs And Primary Coils Are Good.

 

3. Now With The Engine Running And The Volt Meter On Volts Selection Place The Black Lead On The Red White B+ Wire And Look At Each One Of The Output Wires The White,Orange,Yellow And Gray Wires. You Should See About 1.5 Volts At Idle. What You Are Measuring Here Is The Average Voltage Difference Between The Red/White Power Source And The Outputs As They Momentarily Fire To Ground Producing The Excitement For The Coil Pack To Operate.if You Rev Up The Engine The Voltage Will Swing Higher Just Like A Tach As The Firing Pulses To Ground Are Happening More Frequently. If You Have 0 Volts On One Or More Of Your Outputs Then Those Internal TCI Circuits Are Not Working. The Digital Voltmeter Cannot Track Fast Enough To See The Firing Pulse But The Average Voltage Measured Means It Is Happening.

 

4. There Are More Things To Verify Coil Pack Output Resistance About 13 K Ohms To Ground,plug Wires, Side Stand Sensors.TCI Ground And Such But This Should Help For Now. I Have An O Scope At The Shop I Plan On Using It To Detect The Pickup Coil Pulses And Look At The Actually Firing Pulses To The Coil Packs As Soon As I Get My TCI I Ordered. Also Going To Try To Fix The Old One That Is Only Firing On Three Cylinders. I Suspect A Cold Solder Joint On The Board Or Defective Output Transistor. Let Me Know How It Goes Or If You Need Any Help.

__________________

Mike Brood

home of the USS Bergall

http://www.bergall.org/bergall.html

[Guest kcfinfan]

Did all the ohm test on the stator - all good. Checked all ground connections and resoldered all loose connections in the wire harness - made no difference the motor still would loose the tach and misfire after a short time when warmed up. Removed the TCI and put in oven for 1/2 hour, remounted on air box - no difference. When the bike was warm and tended to miss and loose the tach it would be for brief period and the return to full power and then go out again. I did try to unplug the regulator and the bike did seem to run back to full power. I read somewhere that you may test the regulator and it may test fine with and ohm meter but still malfuction when hot. I'm assuming this is what I'm experiencing with the purchased regulator from ebay. I still looking for a warrentied item. I will let you know of any progress.

[GeorgeS]

at the 8 pin plug, check the R/w wire, make sure you have full 12 V battery voltage.

 

Also, the B wire Pin, be sure it is zero ohms to ground.

 

On Left Side of bike, find the White plug with 5 wires , this is In line from the 6 pin TCI plug going down to the Pick Up Coil assembly, under the Alternator cover, Open this Plug, Clean contacts, and Make sure they are All makeing good contact. This is a Common Problem point. Plug is just left and Below the Tank fill, cover.

 

From the R/W wire, read Resistance back thru the " Stop-Run" Switch, Too the OutPut side of the 15 AMP " Ing " fuse. ( the red switch on handlebar ) They are know to go High Resistance, or Intermittant.

 

( Apply spray on Contact cleaner to the Red Switch )

 

Read Resistance " Across " the 15 Amp " Ing Fuse" Read on the Soldered wires at the fuse holder.

 

Next Check:

1. disconnect + battery cable.

 

2. disconnect 8 pin plug from TCI

 

3. Read Resistance from Loose end of + bat cable to " EACH " of 4 pins on the 8 pin Plug, the , " O ", " Gy " , " Y " and " W " wires.

 

4. You will be reading resistance " Thru " the 40 amp main fuse, the Ing. Sw. " On Off " contacts, the 15 amp Ing fuse, and thru each of the Pull apart plugs going to Each of the 4 " Ing Coil " Primary windings.

 

YOU SHOULD SEE 3.2 TO 4 OHMS AT EACH OF THE 4 WIRES ON THE 8 PIN PLUG.

 

Also, note the the " Feed " signal to the Tachometer comes from the " G/y " wire on the 8 pin plug.

 

( dissasemble, the 40 Amp main fuse, check for loose connection on two small Screws holding the fuse element in place )

 

( Use a spray Electrical contact cleaner, in the Ignition Switch and the Stop- Run Switch )

 

 

Find the Large White Plug with 3 #14 White wires comeing from Alternater, going to the Regulator, check it for damage, and High Resistance.

 

with Engine running, at the Alternator Plug, Read the AC ( yes AC ) voltage to ground on each wire.

((( with plug connected, about 2000 RPM ))

You should read 12 to 16 volts AC on Each Wire. If one of the three is substantually lower then the other two , you Alternater may need replacement

 

(( For a good contact Cleaner, I reccomend CRC Brand, 2-26 spray on , you can get it a Home Depot, or Most large Home Electrical Supply Outlets, Use it on Every Electrical Disconnect plug you can get your hands on !!!! )

[Guest timshosvt]

I just wanted to bring this post forward, as it has some good information.

[Dano]

Thanks, Tim, you must have been reading my mind, as I need to do all these things tomy bike. Overcharging, phantom miss on right front cylinder, etc. Once again, Thanks

Dan

[Walnutz]

I got three grey wires going into three white wires which is my stator wires?

[Neil86]

The 3 heavy white wires under the riders left side cover are the stator wires....you want to examine the connector (if still there) for overheating, then unplug and test on the 3 whites going down to the engine...the other side of the plug goes to the rectifier regulator.

[Walnutz]

all Right I have tracked the grey wires to my motor and the white wires to my reg/rec

 

 

I did the ohm test and the stator is grouding out to the motor

 

I need a stator if anyone has one...

[camos]

all Right I have tracked the grey wires to my motor and the white wires to my reg/rec

 

 

I did the ohm test and the stator is grouding out to the motor

 

I need a stator if anyone has one...

Rick's Motorsports is probably the best choice.

[Flyinfool]

Do not waste your time or money buying a used stator. Stators do wear out and there is no way to tell how much life is left in them. Just one of the things that you are best off getting a new or rebuilt one.

[snyper316]

Um what happens if those wires are getting hot? specifically the plug was getting hot and the stator was supposedly just replaced last winter before i bought the bike.... as of right now cant start the bike but what can i look for to see if the stator is malfunctioning also it was charging at 14.5 volts when i tested it at the battery while giving it 3000rpm. and i had a hefty 12.8 charge when engine was off but with engine at idle it held a steady 12.3 volts at the battery.. and when i hit the brake light it would bog down below 12volts.

[bongobobny]

OK corrosion happens on those stator connectors and the resistance of the corrosion causes heat and eventually melts the connectors. Most of us fix it by cutting out the connector and hard soldering the wires...

 

As far as statically testing the stator, with an ohmmeter each of the three white wires, with the connector unplugged, should read infinity ohms to ground. if you read something like say 10 ohms, or even 100 ohms to ground the stator is shorted to ground at one of it's windings. The next test, in your mind label each of the 3 wires as A, B, and C. Now with an ohmmeter read the resistance between a and B, A and C, and B and C. All 3 readings should be some low resistance and all be very close to each other. If one set of readings is lower than the other two by a significant amount (say more than 10% difference) then that winding most likely has shorted turns of wire.

 

Your voltage readings seem to sound like the the charging system is working, however with your statement about the brake lights I wonder if your battery is toast! What you need to do is remove your battery, charge it up overnight, then take it to Auto Zone or any other car parts place or maybe even Walmart and have the battery "LOAD tested" for free...

[snyper316]

OK corrosion happens on those stator connectors and the resistance of the corrosion causes heat and eventually melts the connectors. Most of us fix it by cutting out the connector and hard soldering the wires...

 

As far as statically testing the stator, with an ohmmeter each of the three white wires, with the connector unplugged, should read infinity ohms to ground. if you read something like say 10 ohms, or even 100 ohms to ground the stator is shorted to ground at one of it's windings. The next test, in your mind label each of the 3 wires as A, B, and C. Now with an ohmmeter read the resistance between a and B, A and C, and B and C. All 3 readings should be some low resistance and all be very close to each other. If one set of readings is lower than the other two by a significant amount (say more than 10% difference) then that winding most likely has shorted turns of wire.

 

Your voltage readings seem to sound like the the charging system is working, however with your statement about the brake lights I wonder if your battery is toast! What you need to do is remove your battery, charge it up overnight, then take it to Auto Zone or any other car parts place or maybe even Walmart and have the battery "LOAD tested" for free...

Um it better not be and I cant even remember where I bought the Battery but just got it in March cause I toasted the last one by leaving the key on while i was listening to the radio.

[snyper316]

I'm Just chasing the Gremlins because when my kids go back to school I want to ride and not have to worry about calling Triple A most of the time when i have tore this bike down it has taken just hours... Right now its taking days and I want to make sure everything is right with it when I put it back together I would have never noticed if i hadnt had the side covers off and wearing shorts and touched my leg on that damn plug... had a square funky blister.. At first thought i kicked up another wasp... those suck at 70 mile an hour dont know how he stung me but he did.. and before anyone ask i found a bell with a cross on this bike and left it there.... I had looked at other bikes last year and kept going back to this one... and when I found that I felt it as a sign.. then seen them at a motorcycle shop and read the meaning of them... which this one has more meaning to me then anything.. but Im thinking after spending 1200 in repairs i went with Walmart battery.... and now i have a shop manual i can actually read well I could have replaced the starter and rebuilt it myself.... but i was just a little spooked by the video i watched on the frond forks cause they needed seals but thanks for your reply i was getting a little worried there... getting ready to pull the mufflers down and pull the oil pan off and replacing that silly gasket thats been leaking cause for what small amount of oil gets on the collector it sure does smoke like crazy when I let it idle a 2000 rpm with choke/enricher on Lol Damn thing almost smokes like my dads dodge that had bad valve seals

[camos]

Um what happens if those wires are getting hot? specifically the plug was getting hot and the stator was supposedly just replaced last winter before i bought the bike.... as of right now cant start the bike but what can i look for to see if the stator is malfunctioning also it was charging at 14.5 volts when i tested it at the battery while giving it 3000rpm. and i had a hefty 12.8 charge when engine was off but with engine at idle it held a steady 12.3 volts at the battery.. and when i hit the brake light it would bog down below 12volts.

Seems to me that 14.5v is a little bit on the high side, should be about 14.2v down to 13.8v. A steady 14.5v for hours and hours might be likely to boil the battery. Possibly the R/R is not working properly. I don't know a good test for that. The stator output can be tested by disconnecting the 3 white wire connector, start engine and measure AC output between the 3 segments. The three readings should be almost the same somewhere in the 55vac-60vac range. I know the proper range is somewhere on this site, just can't remember.

 

I recently replaced the stator on my 89. At idle it puts out 13.6v with normal lights on plus a pair of LED fog lights. With the brake lights on it drops to 13.2v. At over 2500 RPM the max output is 13.9v.

[snyper316]

Seems to me that 14.5v is a little bit on the high side, should be about 14.2v down to 13.8v. A steady 14.5v for hours and hours might be likely to boil the battery. Possibly the R/R is not working properly. I don't know a good test for that. The stator output can be tested by disconnecting the 3 white wire connector, start engine and measure AC output between the 3 segments. The three readings should be almost the same somewhere in the 55vac-60vac range. I know the proper range is somewhere on this site, just can't remember.

 

I recently replaced the stator on my 89. At idle it puts out 13.6v with normal lights on plus a pair of LED fog lights. With the brake lights on it drops to 13.2v. At over 2500 RPM the max output is 13.9v.

 

your right i believe mine was the same i was testing alot of things because of the voltmeters were off on my jimmy and my battery on my bike wasnt holding a charge but i know when i had the idle set at 850 900 according to the tach and was informed it was supposed to be more like a 1000 or so and when i cranked it up there i was getting like 12.8 but i think my tester is a little goofed up... i did get this one from harbor frieght 5 yrs ago.. cause i dont think my tahoo is putting 15.2 volts at idle... i dont know if temp has anything to do with it but it was 102 degrees with heat index of 113 like last night i checked my coils they all came back with 2.8 to 3.2 ohms and this morning it was saying crazy things of like 4.8-4.11 for resistance... brought it inside and first tested a triple a battery and it was telling me it had 3 volts but after about 10 min i checked again and it was giving me the reading of 1.6 on the battery and took it back out to garage and tested the coils again and they tested just over 3ohms for resistance so umm think i may splurge and buy a better one... so who knows of good place to buy one cause want one that is accurate before i test the stator....

Edited July 19, 2016 by snyper316

[Flyinfool]

Most cheap ohm meters have difficulty measuring low values like the stator. If you wand a "good" meter get a Fluke. That is what most pros use, but they are expensive.

I have a Craftsman P/N 73756 meter, I like this one because it has a clamp on amp meter so that you can measure the amps AC or DC without having to disconnect any wires. I found it on sale for $50. This feature makes it easier to test the charging system. Just clamp on to each of the 3 stator wires one at a time and they should all be putting out the same amps. If one leg is different then you have a bad stator and/OR a bad rectifier. The ohms function works well enough for testing a stator.

 

I use an Amprobe P/N AMB-35 for measuring low resistance things. It also lets me run a megger test on the windings insulation. But that is getting to a whole new area of messing around with stuff. This is a very expensive meter that can hurt you if you do not know what you are doing.

[snyper316]

Most cheap ohm meters have difficulty measuring low values like the stator. If you wand a "good" meter get a Fluke. That is what most pros use, but they are expensive.

I have a Craftsman P/N 73756 meter, I like this one because it has a clamp on amp meter so that you can measure the amps AC or DC without having to disconnect any wires. I found it on sale for $50. This feature makes it easier to test the charging system. Just clamp on to each of the 3 stator wires one at a time and they should all be putting out the same amps. If one leg is different then you have a bad stator and/OR a bad rectifier. The ohms function works well enough for testing a stator.

 

I use an Amprobe P/N AMB-35 for measuring low resistance things. It also lets me run a megger test on the windings insulation. But that is getting to a whole new area of messing around with stuff. This is a very expensive meter that can hurt you if you do not know what you are doing.

 

I like getting hurt thats when you know your doing something productive what do they say no pain no gain.... yeh mine has gotten all over the place...