Metzler issues: Front or Rear?

[N3FOL]

You folks can argue all day and those of you who think that the Metzlers are good tires then you have made your decision and that is your right. For those of who who are unsure though, LISTEN to V7Goose. They are NOT good tires for our bikes. There have been MANY reports of failures on our bikes. Yes, there have been failures on other brands too but nothing near the number of reports that we get on the Metzlers.

 

The under inflation argument just doesn't fly with me. You would have to convince me that only those who use Metzler tires are ever guilty of running their tires under inflated and since many of those who have experience failures have run other brands before and after then they ONLY run the Metzlers under inflated. Yes, it is important that we watch the air pressure of our tires but it's pretty pathetic that these particular tires come apart if the pressure isn't kept that high.

 

Bottom line. They are crappy tires and Metzler should be sued for continuing to sell them and blame the riders.

 

Sorry folks but these are my opinions and the opinions of many who have experience with these tires. If you are convinced in your own mind that they are good tires then by all means, do what you think is best but for those of you who are unsure, please don't buy or use them. There are several very good tires on the market for our bike. Avon, Michelin, Dunlop....there is no reason to take a chance.

 

It would really be nice to have some kind of a poll in this forum as to what tire manufacturer they are currently using on their Venture. I am interested to find out. We will never know exactly what the problem is with the Metzler tires until someone sue and have NTSB do a real investigation and ultimately a recall. I am glad that there are no loss of life that I've heard so far...this reminds me on the crappy tires that Firestone had years ago (SUV tires).

 

It is also sad to know that Metzlers continue to blame operators on their tire failure issues. You are right there are still a lot of good brands out there available for our Venture and I may stick to the OEM brand when it comes the time to replace my tires.

 

Ride safe and remember to always check your tire pressure before a ride.

[N3FOL]

N3FOL I think the point you're missing is... Metzelers are "Thee" tire to run on 99% of the motorcycles out there... I used to run em on my GW and I swore by them... They would outlast Dunlops & Conties 2 to 1... My tire guy swears by them and thinks they're the greatest... But on the Yamaha Royal Star line there have been lots of issues with them... Ply separations, blowing chunks, and blow outs... I won't run them on my RSV, But I am running a Car Tire on the back... Some people consider that to be risky but I don't think it's as risky as running a Metz... We've heard all the excuses from Metz... Rider abuse, under inflation, overloaded, and "Oh it's just the Brazil made Metzs"... Well I've heard of a few German Metzs with issues too...

 

Hey if it was just a few fat guys with big Ol'Ladys that don't know how to work an air gauge I'd be the first guy on here calling it BS... I don't know how long you've been here or on other RS Forums but it's way past a few fatties..

 

Not really missing a point yet my fellow rider. I have not explicitly said that I will buy Metzlers for my Venture and options are always opened. I am also not saying that all the bad claims that Venture owners complain about Metzler tires is hard to believe, but I am definitely going to put myself on the cautious side and decide as an adult to weigh the risk involved.

 

As far as being around in this forum is concerned, I joined 3 months ago and enjoyed every moment that I spend reading and posting my opinions. Sounds like you decided to use a car tire for your Venture and I wish you all the best and stay safe while riding out there.

[MAINEAC]

Not really missing a point yet my fellow rider. I have not explicitly said that I will buy Metzlers for my Venture and options are always opened. I am also not saying that all the bad claims that Venture owners complain about Metzler tires is hard to believe, but I am definitely going to put myself on the cautious side and decide as an adult to weigh the risk involved.

 

As far as being around in this forum is concerned, I joined 3 months ago and enjoyed every moment that I spend reading and posting my opinions. Sounds like you decided to use a car tire for your Venture and I wish you all the best and stay safe while riding out there.

 

Fair enough and (belated) Welcome to the club... Fellow Rider?? You're messin with me with that right? I forgot to mention I have been hearing about some Metz failures on other heavy cruisers but it hasn't reached the percentage of the RS yet... Ride On

[N3FOL]

Thanks for the Welcome. I see that you joined this forum in '06. I hope you are also having a blast interacting with forum members.

 

I try to be as friendly as possible, so I would use nice words as 'fellow rider' and/or comrade. I know that a number of Kawasaki V2K owners are currently using ME 880's and couldn't be happier with their decision and I've never heard in the Kawa forum of tire failures from heavy cruiser riders. BTW, some also had switched to the Darkside and are fairly pleased with the handling.

 

Since you live in Maine, I hope you are able to get some riding in despite the cold temps. It has been ugly weather wise in PA for the rest of the week, but I am contemplating on getting a nice ride this coming Thursday.

 

Regards.

[V7Goose]

It is also sad to know that Metzlers continue to blame operators on their tire failure issues. You are right there are still a lot of good brands out there available for our Venture and I may stick to the OEM brand when it comes the time to replace my tires.

 

Ride safe and remember to always check your tire pressure before a ride.

Hey N3FOL, three times now you have commented on probably keeping your OEM Brickstone tires. Because the issues between Metzeler and Bridgestone tires are so different, I wanted to make sure you picked up on the general feeling about the OEM tires from experienced owners of these bikes. I'm not trying to harp on your opinion - if those are what you want, that's cool, just make sure you know why.

 

Don't make the wrong assumption that because Yamahaha chose them as stock tires, they must be good. The primary reason for ANY mainline manufacturer of mass produced equipment to select a specific tire for OEM fitment is MONEY. The tire must be CHEAP for them to purchase. In fact, it is not uncommon for the exact OEM tire to not be available for retail purchase at all. It does seem stupid for them to put on a tire that is even worse than average and even makes the bike handle poorly, but that is what they do just to save a few bucks on each unit.

 

As further evidence that there is nothing special about the OEM Brickstone that makes it good for the RSV, let me contrast it with the other OEM tire available - the Dunlop 404. These two different OEM tires fitted to the exact same bike (the majority seem to come with the Brickstones, but not all) handle VERY differently! The vast majority of the owners of a stock RSV with Brickstone tires complain about how heavy the bike feels and how tough it is to handle at parking lot speeds. In contrast, not many owners with stock Dunlop tires complain too much about that. If you are putting your faith in the fact that the tire must be a good choice because the manufacturer selected it, how would you explain such a major difference in handling?

 

I did a lot of very specific tire tests and comparisons on the RSV a few years back, including physically measuring the different brands of tires. The stock Brickstone front tire is over half an inch WIDER than any other brand in the stock size! This, combined with a relatively poor profile shape for our bike, is why the bike feels so ponderous when fitted with Brickstones. It also partially explains why switching to a 130/90 front tire makes such a dramatic improvement in handling at parking lot speeds. But the 130/90 tire is not the only solution - just switching to ANY good brand in stock sizes will dramatically improve the feel of the bike and slow speed handling (remember, all other brands, even the other OEM tire, are more narrow in the same stock size). But it is not just the front tire width that matters - a specific tire profile affects the handling even more, and bike tires are often designed with "neutral", "progressive" and "aggressive" turning profiles. A progressive profile will tend to pull the bike into a slow turn faster the more the bike turns. What makes the stock RSV so ponderous in the parking lot is an aggressive profile that feels like it is trying to slam the bars all the way to full lock as soon as you start to turn! To keep from falling over you have to constantly fight the bars to push them back towards center. Unfortunately, most tire companies don't tell you which profile they use for most tires, so only trial and error will tell.

 

There are MANY MANY MANY riders here who have switched off of the OEM Brickstone tires even while they were still relatively new (meaning they should have been handling as well as possible), and everyone I know of who has done that has been completely blown away at the improved handling they found from any other brand. That is an important point to consider, since we often assume that a lot of the improved handling a rider experiences comes simply from switching out old worn-out tires for new good ones. Until you either try it on your own bike, or get a chance to test ride another RSV with decent tires, you really cannot imagine the difference. I'd like to say "trust me" on this, but ask around - see what others say about their comparison of any brand to the stock Brickstones.

 

In addition to the weight and slow speed issues, the other problems I have personally found with the OEM Brickstones include lack of traction (I constantly had problems with the rear tire breaking loose on relatively moderate acceleration), very short life (my rear was down to the cords in 8,000 miles, terrible tracking of grooves and surface imperfections, and the worst howl I have ever experienced when even slightly leaning the bike (just weaving in a lane was enough to start it). The howling began after only a few thousand miles and just got progressively worse as the tires wore.

 

Other than the poor traction, the OEM Brickstones are not dangerous like the Metzeler tires are on this bike, but you will never know just how bad they are in all other aspects until you try something else.

Goose

[N3FOL]

Yes may be right about Bridgestones. I don't disagree on your opinion. See, I came from a Vulcan 900LT and slow speed handling was 'crappy' on OEM Dunlops and Metzlers....then I eventually sold it and went for the Venture. To tell you the truth, I personally do not see any problems with my Bridgestones since I am not really too aggressive on my throttle lately...at slow speeds on my Venture it is significantly easier to handle than my previous Kawa900 bike that is half as light in lbs. Being only 5'5" and 170 lbs., I find it very easy to handle a Venture.

 

If I am made of money, I will replace my OEM tires just for curiosity on to try a different brand. Maybe not yet, so I cannot give you an accurate response on Avon and Dunlops mounted on a Venture.

[MAINEAC]

Thanks for the Welcome. I see that you joined this forum in '06. I hope you are also having a blast interacting with forum members.

 

I try to be as friendly as possible, so I would use nice words as 'fellow rider' and/or comrade. I know that a number of Kawasaki V2K owners are currently using ME 880's and couldn't be happier with their decision and I've never heard in the Kawa forum of tire failures from heavy cruiser riders. BTW, some also had switched to the Darkside and are fairly pleased with the handling.

 

Since you live in Maine, I hope you are able to get some riding in despite the cold temps. It has been ugly weather wise in PA for the rest of the week, but I am contemplating on getting a nice ride this coming Thursday.

 

Regards.

 

Sometimes I take it to the next level and do a little Blasting and Interacting... OK I thought you were yankin my chain with the Fellow Rider thing... No Prob with that I just don't hear that used much except for maybe a sarcastic time or two... I've been on here since 05 but who's countin... The site crashed a while back and all that old stuff got lost... The V2K uses Radials I believe cuz I'm considering going to a 150/80R-16 to better match my Radial Car Tire in the rear... maybe even a Bridgestone cuz all thos Vulcan riders seem to like them.. But Goose is right the Bias RS Bridgestones suck... I didn't know how bad until I swapped them out with Dunlop 404s..

Edited December 16, 2008 by MAINEAC

[V7Goose]

I wasn't really trying to push you into changing out your stock tires early, although I do think that would be a wise decision. I was more concerned with your having enough information to decide what you really wanted to put on next.

 

Nobody could convince me to change out my stock Brickstones early either. And like you, I didn't really think there was anything wrong with them. In fact, I defended the handling of the RSV with OEM Brickstone tires on several forums back then. Yes, I did notice the very heavy feel at low speeds, but I didn't have any problem with it; and after all, this IS the heaviest touring bike sold! What else would I expect? And at anything above 1st gear, it didn't seem to have any problems at all. I made several trips to the Texas Hill Country and the Ozarks and had a blast in the twisties. But that was when I had nothing else to compare to them on the RSV. To top it all off, I'm the kind of person who just can't waste anything - I even over eat when I KNOW it is better for me to throw the extra food away! So even if I had really believed the tires were as bad as they were, I probably would have just worn them out anyway.

 

But there is just no way to adequately describe how much of an eye-opener the first set of Avons were on that bike after living with those cruddy OEM tires! Bottom line is that just because I could ride the RSV with Brickstones on it didn't mean they were a good choice.

Goose

[Tom]

Thanks for the Welcome. I see that you joined this forum in '06. I hope you are also having a blast interacting with forum members.

 

I try to be as friendly as possible, so I would use nice words as 'fellow rider' and/or comrade. I know that a number of Kawasaki V2K owners are currently using ME 880's and couldn't be happier with their decision and I've never heard in the Kawa forum of tire failures from heavy cruiser riders. BTW, some also had switched to the Darkside and are fairly pleased with the handling.

 

Since you live in Maine, I hope you are able to get some riding in despite the cold temps. It has been ugly weather wise in PA for the rest of the week, but I am contemplating on getting a nice ride this coming Thursday.

 

Regards.

 

If you want to run the OEMs down try and make it to our 2009 Rally in Arkansas and I will let you take my RSV out for awhile,it has the Stock Size Avons on it and that way you can try before you buy plus meet alot of the members on here in person. I do not mind at all if you take it half a day or so and try them out..They may not be for everybody but I will never have anything else but Avons in Stock size,it makes a HUGE difference in handling. Hope to see you in Arkansas starting 8/3/09. Tom

[N3FOL]

Sounds like a great get together next year. I cannot promise anything yet, since we are looking at August of '09 to Arkansas. Anything can happen between now and then on my schedule. But if you have a link for the event, I will make sure to mark my calendar.

 

I've heard of good things about Avons not just from Yamaha riders, but also from other bike owners other than Yamaha. One thing I like about the Venture is that all the weight disappears once you take off from 1st gear.

 

I am still a little ways before I buy my next set of tires and this discussion is absolutely a great way in keeping up the awareness to all Venture riders as to what type of equipment works and what does not work.

[N3FOL]

Sometimes I take it to the next level and do a little Blasting and Interacting... OK I thought you were yankin my chain with the Fellow Rider thing... No Prob with that I just don't hear that used much except for maybe a sarcastic time or two... I've been on here since 05 but who's countin... The site crashed a while back and all that old stuff got lost... The V2K uses Radials I believe cuz I'm considering going to a 150/80R-16 to better match my Radial Car Tire in the rear... maybe even a Bridgestone cuz all thos Vulcan riders seem to like them.. But Goose is right the Bias RS Bridgestones suck... I didn't know how bad until I swapped them out with Dunlop 404s..

 

No problem on my end as well. I am just as thrilled that someone is responding to my postings. Keep up your good work on this forum for riders like us will need everyones take on their good and bad experiences.

 

My previous bike came with D404's and they are ok tires IMO.

[N3FOL]

I wasn't really trying to push you into changing out your stock tires early, although I do think that would be a wise decision. I was more concerned with your having enough information to decide what you really wanted to put on next.

 

Nobody could convince me to change out my stock Brickstones early either. And like you, I didn't really think there was anything wrong with them. In fact, I defended the handling of the RSV with OEM Brickstone tires on several forums back then. Yes, I did notice the very heavy feel at low speeds, but I didn't have any problem with it; and after all, this IS the heaviest touring bike sold! What else would I expect? And at anything above 1st gear, it didn't seem to have any problems at all. I made several trips to the Texas Hill Country and the Ozarks and had a blast in the twisties. But that was when I had nothing else to compare to them on the RSV. To top it all off, I'm the kind of person who just can't waste anything - I even over eat when I KNOW it is better for me to throw the extra food away! So even if I had really believed the tires were as bad as they were, I probably would have just worn them out anyway.

 

But there is just no way to adequately describe how much of an eye-opener the first set of Avons were on that bike after living with those cruddy OEM tires! Bottom line is that just because I could ride the RSV with Brickstones on it didn't mean they were a good choice.

Goose

 

Glad to hear that you are well satisfied with the Avons. As far as my Bridgestones are concerned, I will be very happy to get over 10K on them and perhaps more on the front. However, I always change tires in sets and keep the old front tire as a spare. Right now I don't worry too much about my OEM tire and put my attention to enjoying every single mile I put in my Venture.

[Tom]

Sounds like a great get together next year. I cannot promise anything yet, since we are looking at August of '09 to Arkansas. Anything can happen between now and then on my schedule. But if you have a link for the event, I will make sure to mark my calendar.

 

I've heard of good things about Avons not just from Yamaha riders, but also from other bike owners other than Yamaha. One thing I like about the Venture is that all the weight disappears once you take off from 1st gear.

 

I am still a little ways before I buy my next set of tires and this discussion is absolutely a great way in keeping up the awareness to all Venture riders as to what type of equipment works and what does not work.

 

Here is the link to the rally..I hope to see you there along with many others,Tom

http://dchwestfall.com/2009_VentureRider_Rally.html

[N3FOL]

Thanks for the link.

 

Now I have to figure out how many miles that will be from PA. to AR. AZ.

[MAINEAC]

No problem on my end as well. I am just as thrilled that someone is responding to my postings. Keep up your good work on this forum for riders like us will need everyones take on their good and bad experiences.

 

My previous bike came with D404's and they are ok tires IMO.

 

You're gonna fit in fine here... I've been through Stewartstown a time or 2... Last year I had a 4-5 week job in MD/VA and my parents lived in Lancaster at the time and on Friday nights I'd head to my parents and usually take the back roads instead of sitting in traffic on the Interstates.... I've done most of those backroads in SE PA.. Nice Country..

For the record I don't share the love affair everyone has with the Avons.. I thought they sucked on wet roads and only got 7K out of a rear.. I'm in the minority here (I have to say that so Goose don't get wound up) and your results may vary... Some people here are claiming 20K+ miles which I find hard to believe... I really like the Dunlop 404s and have about 50K on like 5 rears and 3 fronts... The 404s were the best handling tires that I've tried but I've been limited to the Bridgestones that had 10K on them when I bought the bike and 1 set of Avons... and a small sample on my CT 4K (jury's still out on that)..

[N3FOL]

You are very right...love the backroads around here and there are several spots that are great for 4 wheel fun too...just watch out for Bambi.

 

I also feel that I will do ok here, if that is untrue...my priviledges as a member had been already taken out by people that run this forum long time ago. I do ask a lot of questions and will post my opinion on anything that I know. If I have no idea as to what is being talked about, I don't even post at all...simply reading along.

 

I have great luck with my D404's on my last bike and got 15K+ on the rear. D404's are on top of my list. Avons...time will tell on my side. Ride safe.

[MAINEAC]

They don't chuck anyone outta here... If they did I'd be gone... There's some pretty good people here except for that Squidley guy... Watch out for him he's trouble..

[N3FOL]

Is that the guy from the 'Sponge Bob Square Pants' show?

[Sylvester]

My Metzler problem was a front tire, it had bulges on it. Tookit off and the belts had broken, just a matter of time before it desintegrated. Now I have Dunlop 404's.

[N3FOL]

Thanks for the update.

 

My Vulcan was equipped with Dunlop D404's and it lasted me 15K miles. Awesome tires.