Slow Starter - When warm

[SuamicoBob]

When my 89 is cold the starter cranks just fine. After it is warm the starter turns over very slow, pauses, and then the engine fires and starts. It has been this way ever since I got the bike 7 years ago. I lost the stator on a road trip last year (thanks freebird for the replacement procedure, worked great) so now things like this are getting more of my attention. I would like to pull the starter to test it, can it be done without removing the radiator? Any ideas on why it starts the way it does when it is warm? The battery was new last year and the stator is working fine now.

 

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

[Wrongway]

Normal for the 1st gen. Get a set of Squidley's battery cable upgrades, they will do wonders.

[Dusk]

My 83 does the same thing. I have not had any issues with the starter. Seems to be more of a quirk with the bike. I am sure a cable upgrade may have a positive effect. I myself am not worried about it at this point. When the starter does finally go I bet the replacement will have a different quirk.

[Guest Swifty]

Normal for the 1st gen. Get a set of Squidley's battery cable upgrades, they will do wonders.

...and Bob, I can give you a long list of things that didn't work to solve the problem on my bike...every winter it gets longer.

[SilvrT]

When my 89 is cold the starter cranks just fine. After it is warm the starter turns over very slow, pauses, and then the engine fires and starts.

my '85 was like that and so is my '87. I never worry about it coz neither one of them failed to start.

[spear]

Knew a girl like that once - - - :rotf:

[bongobobny]

OK here's what works.

 

 

1. Battery cable upgrade to larger wires. Squidley's set is very nice. Also. when installing the ground wire to the engine, shine up the area of contact.

 

2. Odessy dry battery. Has more cranking amps. The difference surprised even a sceptic like me.

 

3. A 4 brush starter such as out of a V-Max. I haven't done that yet but several people have, and say that it definately helps.

 

 

Or, just don't start it when it's warmed up...

[Guest DAZ]

My 90 does the same thing. I have a set of Squidley's battery cables on order. I will most likely do the upgrade after this summer. 1st year with the bike and I just want to ride it for now.

[Condor]

My '83 did the slow start a couple of times when hot, and then I removed the front air dam, and it hasn't done it since. I removed the dam because I planned on installing the newer plastic style, and it looks like maybe keeping the front of the motor cooler has helped....maybe not???

[gibvel]

 

Or, just don't start it when it's warmed up...

 

Or just don't stop it when it's warmed up...

[PEIslander]

My 84 has the same 'problem' but it always starts, just gives you bad feelings until it fires. I replaced my battery cables with heavier cables and cleaned connection points etc, but the bike still starts the same way. Had my starter out through the winter and replaced the end bearing and cleaned the armiture. The brushes were good as new and the armiture where the brush runs has almost no wear. Since it always starts I think I've done enough.

The 4 brush starter is probably the way to go if this is really something you need to take care of.

[Doug Hare]

My 84 has the same problem and I was going to try and fix it but maybe from what I am reading I will just leave it alone. If it does fail me one day then I will change my mind but so far it has not let me down.

[Squidley]

Normal for the 1st gen. Get a set of Squidley's battery cable upgrades, they will do wonders.

 

They do work well on most of the bike that they are installed on, but I can't give a 100% because Swiftys bike is posessed!

 

...and Bob, I can give you a long list of things that didn't work to solve the problem on my bike...every winter it gets longer.

 

Dave here is my only disclaimer...but I still love him

[GigaWhiskey]

Squidley's bigger cables and a PC680MJ are a dreamy combination! I have no fear that she will have problems starting unless it is related to something completely unrelated. She spins over very fast!

[SuamicoBob]

Hey thanks for all the great information. It's nice to know that my starting issue is normal. I will probably install the larger cables next winter.

[mbrood]

It's still cheap to use a jumper cable and jump the battery positive directly to the starter side of the solenoid... although this bypasses the existing hot cable to the input side of the solenoid... it bypasses the solenoid! The FRONT large terminal on the solenoid (stock bike) goes to the starter.

 

(This also bypasses all safety switches and it's GOING to turn over so make sure it's in neutral!!!)

 

My 86 always started fine cold and hesitant (reluctant) when hot.

 

Then the solenoid died one day.

 

With the new one I noticed one thing right off... even cold she spun MUCH faster... and I have YET to have a "hot" problem.

 

It may not be the cure for all but many of you may have a worn solenoid that's being resistive and hogging a lot of available power.

 

It's worth a check.

[Condor]

It may not be the cure for all but many of you may have a worn solenoid that's being resistive and hogging a lot of available power. It's worth a check.

 

Thanks for the insight Mike. Another piece of info that's going into my bag of tricks.....

[jcdas]

I guess my story is like Swifty's.

 

I overhauled the starter. Brushes and commutator were like new. There was a slight amount of corrosion on brush plate where it is squeezed by the field windings and the end bearing plate. This is the ground path to the ground brush, so any corrosion here can add resistance to the high current path.

 

I replaced the starter 'switch', more commonly known as a solenoid.

 

I replaced my battery cables with a set from Squidley.

 

That being said, when my bike is HOT, it is slow to start. If I stall it. It starts OK. If I wait 15-30 seconds it's slow. Starts perfectly AFTER 5 minutes rest.

 

I can stop for a quick gas fill up, and I have absolutely no problems restarting after that 5 minute interval.

 

At least it's a common problem. Maybe it will go away when I get a new battery, but so far, mine is holding up just fine, and it's into at least it's third season. Not sure how old the battery really is.

[jfman]

Hello Guys,

 

Reviving this old thread.

 

My bike does this. It starts fine when cold but when the bike is warm the starter either wont work at all or is verrrrry slow and wont get the bike going. The warmer the bike is, the weaker the starter seems to be.

 

I even connected jumper cables directly to the starter(postivie lead on the wire's nut, negative lead to the engine case next to the starter) to a big truck battery and it's the same result.

 

I let the bike cool down and the starter works fine gain unit it gets hot.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Can these starters be taken apart and inspected easely?

[Patch]

Hello Guys,

 

Reviving this old thread.

 

My bike does this. It starts fine when cold but when the bike is warm the starter either wont work at all or is verrrrry slow and wont get the bike going. The warmer the bike is, the weaker the starter seems to be.

 

I even connected jumper cables directly to the starter(postivie lead on the wire's nut, negative lead to the engine case next to the starter) to a big truck battery and it's the same result.

I let the bike cool down and the starter works fine gain unit it gets hot.

 

What do you guys think?

Can these starters be taken apart and inspected easely?

 

Well I think you have a hot start problem:think: likely means you are up chits creek

 

A couple years back I was trouble shooting a german car with the same problems. I was sure it was a vapor lock issue from leaking injectors. But in that case it turn out that it was a shaft/armature problem cause by heat expansion; a shim at the housing cured it! See the issue again is you need to check potentials off a list. First inspect all grounds and leads to make sure they are 100% which means pulling them and cleaning, it isn't easy to check for power/current loss thru the starter relay onless you have that type of meter for that high an amperage, you might read 12+ volts in and out but so what.

Start with the cable connection, make sure your your plus are dry when under that condition/hot/no start. Check the solenoid switch by switching with another one known to work so long as the connects are the same, it just a switch from low amp to high amp.

Then pull the starter bring it to a shop for testing; it really appears that when hot you lose a field happen to many starters.

You can also try when hot removing a plug, then a second one that is similar to load testing a starter!

Let us know

[Flyinfool]

Yes they are easy to take apart to clean and inspect. It is more work getting it out of the bike... Not hard just more work.

 

Doing the "ground Mod" in the starter will help a lot. You can replace the carbon brushes in it if needed. As mentioned in all the posts above, A good battery, heavier cables and clean connections also go a long way to help the issue. Last thing to do is to get a 4 brush starter to replace the 2 brush starter, along with a good battery clean connections and heavier cables will definitely do it.

 

I never had to spend the money to get the 4 brush starter as the other fixes did the job.

 

Don't forget to clean all of the connections on the negative side as well as the positive side. Clean them even if they look clean. There can be bad corrosion that the eye can not see.

[SpencerPJ]

I think if you are certain it's not your connections, it's time to upgrade to the newer starter. I still have the original 83 starter, I upgraded my ground and it's better. I think I replaced the solenoid too, can't remember why or if it helped. I rode the other day, got gas, and noticed a slow start. In summer heat, it can be real slow at times, never has let me down. (and if it's hot, and it if ever did let me down, it is a breeze to push start, I tried it) My problem is, I have an 8 year old battery that I know I'm on serious borrowed time with.

[videoarizona]

As above:

 

New cables

Better ground connection

4 pole starter.

[Patch]

What year is this bike?

[BlueSky]

What year is this bike?

 

You're lucky Patch. As I understand, the 91 and newer Ventures have a 4 brush starter.