Slight pull to right

[RossKean]

I have a new-to-me 2002 Midnight Venture. I have noticed a slight pull to one side - not so bad that the bike would run off the road without steering input, but noticible all the time. It is not related to road crown, uneven loading of the bike or rider position (I checked). This is apparent at all speeds.

 

Tires are Metzelers and are about half gone. Reasonably normal wear pattern with no evident cupping.

 

I am concerned that I may have an alignment issue but I have no idea how to determine this on the Venture or how to fix it if there is a problem. I bought the bike used from a Yamaha dealer (last week) with 36,000 km (22,500 mi) on the clock. As far as I know, the bike has never been involved in a significant accident although there is evidence (bent engine guard and minor scratches) that it had been dropped at some point. I should mention that this is the exact behavior I have experienced on my Roadstar when a rear wheel was installed and not lined up perfectly. On that bike a simple loosening of the axle and a tweak to the adjusters fixed it right up. Hopefully, we are dealing with some sort of adjustment rather than something twisted out of alignment!!

 

Also, when checking for hands-off "behavior", I experienced some significant oscillation in the handlebars. Not violent or out of control but enough that I had to grab them. This was at about 30 mph. Road was fairly rough so this might have been what started it. I don't feel major/abnormal vibration or oscillation in the bars during normal riding at any speed. Someone suggested that this might be loose steering head bearings and I will check that out - winter project.

 

For the sake of safety and the potential for excess tire wear, I would like to resolve this ASAP. I would welcome your suggestions.

 

Thanks

 

Ross

[royalstarjac]

My first guess would be the tires. On my original set of stock Brickstones mine did the same thing. With a new set of Avons the problem was solved. 9k mi later it still tracks straight even at 80 mph with no hands.-Jack

[RossKean]

My first guess would be the tires. On my original set of stock Brickstones mine did the same thing. With a new set of Avons the problem was solved. 9k mi later it still tracks straight even at 80 mph with no hands.-Jack

 

Jack

 

I haven't had any issues with Metzelers in the past. These have plenty of wear left but I concede that a defective tire could cause some of the symptoms I am seeing. As I mentioned, the tires appear to be OK and I would prefer to rule out other possibilities before I replace tires (although this might be the eventual solution). It wouldn't do much good to put new rubber on and find these tires wearing too fast as the result of a mechanical issue.

 

Thanks

[CrazyHorse]

I dont think there is a way to adjust alignment on those.

[venture101]

I have had three shaft drive bikes. 83 Magna v-45, 94 Shadow 1100 (check out the classifieds), and now the 07 RSV. All of them had that pull to the right. I attributed it to the gyro effect of the drive shaft. Am I nuts?

[RossKean]

Jimbob

I haven't found anything in the service manual on this either or read anything about it elsewhere. Just trying to learn something from the experience of others.

 

Venture 101

I never had a shaft-drive bike so I don't know what to expect. I would be surprised if a "pull" was part of the nature of the beast.

 

Ross

[Eck]

Some of my first thoughts would be to look at:

Are the front tubes possibly bent (just a little bit), from the bike being dropped,or possibly wrecked at one time?

Are both front tubes "even" in thier length..meaning...

(one may be lower than the other through the tripple tree to front wheel axle)

Does the front wheel look straight up and down..(looking from 12 oclock to 6 oclock).

In other words does it run on a "minor" slant ( / ) or ( \ ) minor angle..

The front wheel may be at minor tilt or slant causeing the slight pulling effect.

Ok, some more thouhgts coming in out of curiosity...

Is the rear axle locking bolt tight on right side of bike

Is the (left hand side) large rear axle nut tight?

Are the (4) acorn nuts loose on the drive shaft housing

Do you see any wear marks on the inside of the drive shaft housing where the rear tire is so close that it almost rubs

(Standing on left hand side of bike but looking at the right hand side of shaft housing)

Other thoughts that may not have anything to do with it, but for my own curiosity..

Does your bike by chance have a whine...

Does the rear wheel grind or click when motor is off and you hand push it on pavement or the garage floor forward or backwards..?

[KiteSquid]

Are the front forks pressurized at exactly the same pressure???

 

 

You can check the alignment of a bike but it usually is not adjustable on shaft driven bikes. You can find a procedure on the internet to check to see if the rear tire is in alignment. If somebody removed and replaced the rear wheel or rear control arm, and did not install it properly there is the remote possibility that it is canted in the frame.

 

Also check for Leveling Links, somebody might have installed them improperly (but this is a far remote possibility).

 

If it was during acceleration and decelerations only I would probably attribute it to the shaft drive, especially during cornering.

[RossKean]

Eck

I think I have a homework assignment for this weekend! I really appreciate the detailed response and a list of things to check out! I'll report back on Monday (or sooner, if I get a chance).

In answer to your last questions - The bike does have a whine and I am pretty sure it is associated with the clutch rather than the rear end. Pitch is proportional to engine speed, not bike speed and disappears when the clutch is pulled in. No clicking or grinding when I back up.

 

KiteSquid

I'll check out the fork pressure and the levelling links as well!

 

I hope I don't find anything expen$ive!

 

Ross

[Eck]

 

Eck

In answer to your last questions - The bike does have a whine and I am pretty sure it is associated with the clutch rather than the rear end. Pitch is proportional to engine speed, not bike speed and disappears when the clutch is pulled in. No clicking or grinding when I back up.

I was leaning towards the rear rubber bushings being worn that may cause rear wheel to slightly tild....that is why I asked...

 

 

KiteSquid

I'll check out the fork pressure and the levelling links as well!

 

KiteSquid,

Very good reccomendation / suggestion !!!!

[jlh3rd]

are your tire pressures correct

[RossKean]

jlh3rd

 

I am running 40 psi in front and 42 psi in rear.

[1BigDog]

Try running 45 up front and 48 in the rear then see what happens. Also, the ocillation that you feel may be the fork bearings slightly loose, but the tire pressure can cause the wobblies too. If you adjust the front fork air pressure make sure you use a hand pump. A compressor can blow out the seals. I run 5 lbs up front and 45 in the rear.

 

One more thing.......do a real good tire check on the rear tire of those Metzlers...they are prone to crack and lose chunks of rubber. It has happened to many of us.

[Mike Rice]

ECK

My 07 will make a clicking noise eminating from the rear of the bike if I push it forward or backward with the motor off. Do I possibly have a potential problem as well?

Mike:doh:

[RossKean]

Try running 45 up front and 48 in the rear then see what happens. ...

One more thing.......do a real good tire check on the rear tire of those Metzlers...they are prone to crack and lose chunks of rubber. It has happened to many of us.

 

While 45 and 48 might give me a better ride, those values exceed both Yamaha's recommended maximum and the max for the tires. Probably not too bad if its cool outside, but I think you would be into serious overpressure riding fast on hot asphalt.

 

Ross

[RossKean]

Eck

 

I checked the pressure in both front forks and they differed by a couple of lbs - 5 and 7 psi. I brought both to 0.0 and the ride (and pull) did not change very much.

 

Just for "fun", I tried checking the wheel alignment the same way I used to on the Roadstar. I took a long straight edge (8') and placed on the rear tire about a third of the way up and ran it to the front of the bike. On one side, the straight edge was right against the edge of the front tire and there was ~3/4" gap on the other side. This tells me one of two things and I don't know what I can do about either. My experience with the Roadstar tells me that this is more than enough to cause these issues.

 

1) The rear axle may be "skewed" a bit. Easy fix to move one side back or forward on a belt or chain driven bike but I don't know if anything can be done on a shaft drive.

2) The other possibility is that the whole front end (or frame) is twisted somehow so the front tire is effectively kicked in on one side. This would have to have been the result of poor manufacturing tolerances or an accident much worse than a parking lot drop!

 

Tomorrow, I will get someone to help me hold the bike at the balance point on a flat surface and put a carpenter's square on each wheel to see if they are both perpendicular to the ground (or at least the same as each other). If they are not, I may have a serious problem.

 

As I mentioned, this pull (actually to the left, not the right as I had posted) is not severe and the bike is quite rideable but it ain't right. It will cause excess tire wear and has to affect handling and ultimate control of the motorcycle. (It annoys the crap out of me as well). Maybe I should see if the dealer still has my old Roadie!

 

I appreciate your help and I still have some stuff to do (i.e. your list from your earlier post).

 

Ross

[DRAGIN TAIL]

I have had three shaft drive bikes. 83 Magna v-45, 94 Shadow 1100 (check out the classifieds), and now the 07 RSV. All of them had that pull to the right. I attributed it to the gyro effect of the drive shaft. Am I nuts?

 

No you are not!! I noticed this when I installed my sidecar on my 83 Venture. When I get on it pretty good it tends to pull to the right and when I let off it pulls some to the left. I didn't have this on a Belt Drive Harley that I had a sidecar on. I thinks it has to do with the drive shaft. That would transfer to a bike without a sidecar but it wouldn't be as apparent.

Ronnie

[Eck]

ECK

My 07 will make a clicking noise eminating from the rear of the bike if I push it forward or backward with the motor off. Do I possibly have a potential problem as well?

 

 

Mike,

I sent you an email, containing a link from this site on how to grease your rear hub splines and you might want to go ahead and grease the drive shaft while your at it and have it all apart anyway..call or email me if you need walked through it.

[Eck]

Eck

 

I checked the pressure in both front forks and they differed by a couple of lbs - 5 and 7 psi. I brought both to 0.0 and the ride (and pull) did not change very much.

Nope, dont think this would cause the pulling to the left with that little amount of air pressure difference..got to be something else..but good thing to have the air pressure even anyway...that eliminates any quesitons there.

 

I tried checking the wheel alignment.

I took a long straight edge (8') and placed on the rear tire about a third of the way up and ran it to the front of the bike. On one side, the straight edge was right against the edge of the front tire and there was ~3/4" gap on the other side.

Question here Ross,

Did you by any chance "turn" the front wheel to where it was touchingthe straight edge evenly on both the front and aft ends of the "front wheel" while at the same time the straight edge was touching both front and aft ends of the rear wheel..then after making sure both wheels / tires are touching the striaght edge on that side, andnd with out moving the bike, move over to the other side with your straight edge to check and see if the other side was even or off at all?

In other words, are you positive, that the front wheel was not "turned" by first lining it up with the straight edge to the rear wheel on one side then check for misalignment on the opposite side with out moving the bike at all.

Hope I stated that clearly enough for you to understand..?

Hell, it makes sence to me..

 

 

1) The rear axle may be "skewed" a bit. Easy fix to move one side back or forward on a belt or chain driven bike but I don't know if anything can be done on a shaft drive.

Slight possibility, but if it is determined that the rear wheel "IS" "skewed" , and you know which way the rear wheel needs to be "skewed" to adjust correctly, you might be able to have the drive shaft housing end milled off a little to compensate for the "skewed" defect...??

Lots of thinking and checking out needs to be done here though...but is possible to do..

 

2) The other possibility is that the whole front end (or frame) is twisted somehow so the front tire is effectively kicked in on one side. This would have to have been the result of poor manufacturing tolerances (I really doubt this theroy), or an accident much worse than a parking lot drop!

This would be my guess..but I cant tell from here with out looking at other aspects of your bike to determine how bad it may have been if at all..

I do lean more towards an accident because of a coule things you earlier said:

(1) you bought the bike used from a Yamaha dealer

(2) As far as I know, the bike has never been involved in a significant accident although there is evidence(bent engine guard and minor scratches) that it had been dropped at some point.

Having a bent engine guard (crash bar) tells me the bike had ot have been in motion when the crash bar touched the ground..

 

(3) hands-off "behavior", I experienced some significant oscillation in the handlebars

Possible that one front fork may be bent (just a little) "further back" then the other front fork... meaning they are not perfectly parellel or on the same "angle" with each other..

 

 

Tomorrow, I will get someone to help me hold the bike at the balance point on a flat surface and put a carpenter's square on each wheel to see if they are both perpendicular to the ground (or at least the same as each other). If they are not, I may have a serious problem.

This will be very tricky since the bike has the possibility to move/ sway even when being held by someone..If you can tie it up / brace it up...so it can not move from side to side or forward and aft.. and to securely strap it down would be a lot better...

even with a person holding it the bike can sway from side to side and your efforts would end up being worthless if it moves...

 

As I mentioned, this pull (actually to the left, not the right as I had posted) is not severe and the bike is quite rideable but it ain't right. It will cause excess tire wear and has to affect handling and ultimate control of the motorcycle.

I definately agree with you here...

 

 

I appreciate your help and I still have some stuff to do (i.e. your list from your earlier post).

 

Please keep me informed even if it is through private email, because I am very interested in trying to see what may be wrong..

[RossKean]

Eck

 

I understood your comments on the alignment check. I am pretty sure its is done correctly. I will check it today in better light and let you know.

 

Perhaps we should take the discussion "off-line" by PM or email but post final results here for the benefit of others.

 

Ross

[Billet]

I too have painstakingly checked the alignment with a straight edge. A lot of guys here didn't get the concept, Just like setting the rear wheel on the old dirt bike with a string.

You mentioned off 3/4 inch. I take this to mean that the front wheel sits 3/8" off to one side. Strange but this is exactly what I came up with when I checked my "04".

After I got it last Feb. it always seemed like it was headed off to one side. Strangely enough the right.

Now the big question, My front wheel is off 3/8"to the left of the rear. How about yours?

[RossKean]

Now the big question, My front wheel is off 3/8"to the left of the rear. How about yours?

 

When I put the straight edge on the rear tire on the right hand side of the bike, all four tire edges were pretty much in a line. When I did it on the left side of the bike (straight edge on the back tire), the straight edge ended out somewhere between 1/2" and 3/4" to the left of the front tire. I did this last evening in a fairly dark garage with hot pipes so I need to do it more carefully - maybe later today.

 

Ross

[Billet]

When I put the straight edge on the rear tire on the right hand side of the bike, all four tire edges were pretty much in a line. When I did it on the left side of the bike (straight edge on the back tire), the straight edge ended out somewhere between 1/2" and 3/4" to the left of the front tire. I did this last evening in a fairly dark garage with hot pipes so I need to do it more carefully - maybe later today.

 

Wierd? Exactly opposite of my "04".

I have heard that 3/8" is within spec:confused24:

I could not come up with a good way to correct it so I have gotten used to it I guess. Bike feels good and tracks straight. (at least in my mind)

I had checked my 02 1100 Vstar and it was right on.

Maybe we worry too much!

Gary

[RossKean]

Wierd? Exactly opposite of my "04".

I have heard that 3/8" is within spec:confused24:

Gary

 

Gary

 

Mine is out considerably more than 3/8 and there is a tracking problem. I have not seen any spec for this parameter. Also have some front end shimmy (hands-off) that I really don't like. I am going to take the bags off on the weekend and make some more careful measurements. Try to see if I can tell how this might be brought back into line. Eck has given me some ideas and some things to check out.

 

I will also stop by the dealer where I bought the bike and see if the service guys have any ideas.

 

Ross

[Squeeze]

Gary

 

Mine is out considerably more than 3/8 and there is a tracking problem. I have not seen any spec for this parameter. Also have some front end shimmy (hands-off) that I really don't like. I am going to take the bags off on the weekend and make some more careful measurements. Try to see if I can tell how this might be brought back into line. Eck has given me some ideas and some things to check out.

 

I will also stop by the dealer where I bought the bike and see if the service guys have any ideas.

 

Ross

 

You can buy another adjustable Bolts and replaced the fixxed one(on a Vmax that would be the left) with another adjustable Bolt. This Way you could adjust the rear Swingarm to your Likings and clear the Offset.

 

Yamaha Germany states for the Vmax a Offset of 9mm /0.35 Inches is within Specs. I never find that right. 2 or 3 mm might be ok, but 9 mm are too much for me.