"The Whine" - What's Yamaha's response?

[george_park]

Hello from SE PA.

 

I ride with a number of other RSTD and Venture Owners and we've been talking a lot about "the whine" on the RS models. My '06 RSTD whines.

 

Dealers have different responses, replacing the clutch, changing fluids, telling people there is nothing they can do about it and there have also been a wide range of experiences dealing with Yamaha.

 

It's obviously a wide spread, well known issue on the RS models. It's not advertised - most people find out only after they purchase one and are frustrated that they have almost no options. These are touring machines that can be so loud it's no fun to ride them and putting them into the shop takes away time from the rider.

 

I'm interested in finding out if there is a 100% fix and what Yamaha is doing about it. If there is no fix and Yamaha is not interested in taking care of their customers people will speak with their feet.

 

After going through something similar with my old car (euro) I dumped it and went with a new one (japanese). With the new car I had a problem with 3rd gear - I told the dealer, they had gears ordered and installed within 3 days so getting rid of the old one was the right thing to do.

 

Any input on a fix and Yamaha's response would be appreciated.

 

Also see:

 

Info on the Yamaha tech note

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showpost.php?p=55625&postcount=43

 

Tech Note:

M2002013 (National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration)

 

Regards,

gp

Edited September 21, 2008 by george_park

[ediddy]

My 05 had the whine. I went to my dealer, Tallahassee Powersports, Tallahassee, Florida, and they installed the I basket. My whine is completely gone. Now the rear end problems I had were something else. I have been amazed at the attitude and responses some dealers have given people. Tallahassee Powersports has never questioned me anytime I have been in with a problem. I leave the bike for the warranty work and when I pick up my bike they tell me if I have anymore problems to let them know. They never say anything about money. They have replaced the clutch basket, fixed the problem with the radio sticking on a station, replaced the rear end 5 times, replaced the rear shock and most recently replaced the fuel pump. All of this was bad enough but if my dealer had jacked me around I might have walked in with an AK47. Yamaha has never backed up either. Every time I have called the district service manager in Kennesaw, Georiga he has gotten a factory rep on the problem or called the service manager at the dealer. I do fault the yamaha corporation for not correcting the problems with the whine, shock and fuel pump. The yamaha corp is a strange corp. They don't promote the venure and don't seem to care about the problems with the bike.

[TEW47]

Had clutch basket changed out but did not completly fix the problem. It still whines up to 60mph where I can't hear it anymore.

 

tew47

[Newfie Bill]

The Poll should have had:

 

There is little or no whine.

 

I have a 99 and there is very little evidence of a whine and only when up around 120 K/hr.

[PRNTTEK]

I bought new my 2006 RSTD and it is not any noisier than my suzuki c50 and it is alot more bike.

I kinda of wish that I could hear this noise so I would know what I am missing.

Just had my 8k check up new plugs and carbs synced etc. it sure runs better.

Guess I am lucky I have had no real problems with this bike, that weren't done by me (I.E. KN filters and road king exhaust).

But the info I got from this group about plugging up those lines took care of that.

Thanks

[Sleeperhawk]

The Poll should have had:

 

There is little or no whine.

 

I have a 99 and there is very little evidence of a whine and only when up around 120 K/hr.

 

I agree with you, have an 08, no whine.

[mountainhorsega]

We have an 06 TD that we bought with 200 miles on it. Have never had any whine. The dealer Suzuki/Yamaha of Dalton has been great. They replaced the rear shock with no argument and are always great to deal with. Now, RT Cycle in Rossville service department is a pain(Sales staff is great but you only need them once). A friend just bought an 06 TD (He test road it) and he has the whine. He said he mentioned it to the dealer in Rome and they told him he needed an I basket and ordered one asap. I haven't heard yet if it fixed his problem. We have been very happy with ours - Very few problems and the Dalton dealer has been great.

[Guest paventure]

I have 07 Venture with 7800 miles on the clock, 2 weeks ago a very loud whine started, so loud, I could no longer hear the exhust note or the radio, In fact on a recent ride another venture rider could hear my bike whine, at a light he asked what the hell is that noise coming from you bike! The dealer replaced the clutch basket with the I size, unfoutunaley it did not work the whine is just as loud. So its back to the dealer for another clutch basket. I will post the results of that attempt to fix it..

 

As for the dealer, they are GREAT and doing evertyhing they can to help me, as for me , spending 16K on bike I can not ride is not sitting well, but I'm an optimist so hopefully Yahmaha can get this fixed.

Edited September 18, 2008 by paventure

[ediddy]

Hey paventure,

Your whine may not be the clutch basket. It could be the rear end. I had the I basket installed and the whine was completely gone. Approx 5,000 miles later I was on a trip with my brother-in-law. My bike was screaming so bad I had to stopped at a Bass Pro Shop and get some ear plugs. I thought the whine was back. We were somewhere around Chattanooga, TN and I went around him on a four lane. The next morning at breakfast he asked me what in the world was wrong with my bike. He could hear the whine before I even got next to him. I got home and took my bike back to the dealer and asked them if they could get another clutch basket for my bike. The service manager said he would check it out and call me. He called the next day and said my rear end was bad. He said the pinion gear was worn out. Yamaha replaced the rear end under warranty and the whine was completely gone again and hasn't come back. Your problem may not be the clutch basket.

[Guest paventure]

Hi ediddy,

 

thanks for the info, i will take a look at the rear end, but when I lean over to the right I can here the whine coming from the clutch basket area also it only whines when under load, as soon as I back off on the throtle the whine stops, twist the throttle the whine starts. Was this your experiance also?

[kansan29]

Bought an "07 TD in May. Of course they don't allow road tests on new before you buy. They were aware of the noise though as they told me it should go away after it broke in. Whined so loud at 35 in 3rd, 45 in 4th, and 55 in 5th, thought I would go nuts. Previously owned 3 Suzuki Boulevards. I thought their quality was bad. Dealer did finally replace I-Basket after I demanded. Didn't do anything to help though. They told me at my age (57) that my hearing could be at fault, then told me to buy ear plugs. They tried to convince me the noise was normal. Needless to say they won't sell me anything else. I called Yamaha customer service and was contacted by the district rep. He met me at another dealer and installed another I-basket, after installing two other used ones to show me how bad it could get. It did help just slightly, but is still there. Since then I have installed BUB Sleepers to drown out the noise. I work at an auto dealer and if we tried this approach we would be in arbitration all the time.

Does anyone besides me smell a class action law suit of some kind with this problem? I'm can't imagine how many owners don't even know avout this great web site. I talked to a long friend of mine yeaserday that has the noise and didn't know it was most of these bikes. sorry for the long rant. Love the RSTD ride. Too bad it has this problem.

[george_park]

From speaking to people it's an all too common a story, when the whine happens it goes from mild (mine) to wild (yours and others) but fixing it is an issue.

 

IMHO this is something that should be fixed - a flaw in the product which has impacted the 36 people who have responded to this poll.

 

I'm pretty surprised that Yamaha reps are not proactive in taking care of this, allow it go on year after year.

 

I know I could find a class rep with a significant issue, may know counsel to take it on, if there is enough interest I'll pursue it. In the mean time I'm going to see what I can do with regards to Yamaha.

 

gp

[george_park]

I called Star Motorcycles this afternoon to speak to their customer relations department.

 

They said initially the sound (whine) is caused by the way the clutch basket hits the rubber [trans] mount.

 

They suggested grinding the clutch basket; I don't know how practical or realistic that is or how comfortable I would be in having that done.

 

They said they do make an "i" basket - a replacement at their cost - which may help and may not due to the fact that every bike is different.

 

Unfortunately, I was told, they have no other options so if it does not work it does not work.

 

IMHO if the basket is hitting a rubber mount I would think that over time that rubber object would be worn down to the point where there is no longer any noise. Maybe that would be a long time but some people have put some serious miles on the whine and it's not gone away.

 

They said after being on hold it was straight cut gears making the noise which really confused me - is it the basket or the gears or both? Not being technical they could not answer.

 

If you have any problems they said to have the dealer call the tech line guys to sort out the issues.

 

The Customer Relations person I spoke to said that they have no reports of any loud whines (only mild) - none so bad others can hear while riding. Having heard it myself I can tell you I would be going nuts if that were my bike. I think it’s curious that with all of the effort people have put into dealing with the whine that Customer Relations would be unaware of the issue or it’s severity in some cases.

 

So right now I'm at an impasse with what to do if my whine gets any worse. Looking at the experiences of many of you it's not always looking good.

 

On my '07 auto there was a problem with 3rd gear. There was a tech notice on it so they ordered the new parts and made arrangements with me to bring in the car - and take a loaner - at their expense. I'm not driving a Bentley, yet the dealer still replaced the car in a manner the manufacturer had developed. I kind of expect that same thing from Yamaha here - especially when one of the selling points is the "5 year" warranty.

 

I do like the brand and have had good experiences with STAR but in this case I would like to see them be more proactive instead of taking the "caveat emptor" approach.

 

No one wants to be aggravated or distracted while on two wheels, have their bike in the garage or at the dealer constantly, loosing drive time and generally being dissatisfied with their investment.

 

Regards,

gp

[lockdoc]

Paid for an "I" basket out of my own pocket and its fixed the problem. $225 for a basket and $100 for the install. Better than getting stressed out over it. Now I can enjoy the ride.

[ediddy]

Hey Paventure,

On the trip I mentioned it was just like the clutch whine. When I backed off the throttle the whine would go away. There was a point at about 83 to 84 mph where the whine would go away if I held the throttle constantly at that speed. If I pulled the clutch in and coasted the whine would go away. I could only do this on an interstate highway. I would have bet my life that it wasn't the rear end and was shocked when the service manager said it was the rear diff. This may not be your problem but I would get the dealer to check out the rear diff just to be sure.

[ediddy]

One more thing. Any customer service rep with yamaha that says the whine isn't a problem is full of BS. There have many hundreds of complaints and I was one of the loudest complainers. The problem is when you call yamaha you probably get a call center with a first line service rep that can't handle anything other than a routine small complaint. You have to get up the line to get someone that knows about the problem. I remember a guy on this site that I think was from south carolina and I think his name was Kit Carson, that did substantial testing on the whine and even had the name and phone number of someone with yamaha that he talked with more than once concerning the whine. He got so frustrated that he traded his venuture in on a goldwing. You can look up his old threads on this subject and probably find the name and phone number of the yamaha rep he talked with.

[emack]

After dealing with Yamaha customer service over this very issue,.. the only option was to rid of the bike as the noise was horrible. Knowing how Yamaha treats their customers and warranty issues I will not buy another Yamaha. They initially denied knowing anything about clutch noise and said they had no other complaints. If that's the way they want to do business so be it. They are not the only brand of motorcycles.

V-twins rule

[LUCKYSTIFF39]

....................................................Well, I do not have that problem.....yet. coming up on 20,000 on a 2006 RSTD, and nothing. I did buy used, and the previous owner did let me take it for a ride first. So, I guess if it stays like this, I am very happy. Sorry for all of you that have the noise. Geat bike...............

[george_park]

I did have an email conversation with a dealer tech today.

He let me know that there was a known "characteristic" of the RS drive gears and that there was a tech bulletin from Yamaha on this in the past. This characteristic - according to Yamaha - cannot be changed but the point at which is occurs may be able to be changed with a basket, I basket or changing the gears.

I was told that if I was unhappy with an attribute of the machine - which is not considered a defect - to let Yamaha know. I'll keep looking for a way to do that.

Ok, here is where I get lost again. A characteristic is something a quality or something distinctive. An attribute is again something specific to a person or object. I'm not sure if I missed the marketing brochure which listed "loud whine at unspecified RPM" as part of the list of features. If it did I would have purchased a Strat or went with a Harley, Triumph, Honda or Suzuki.

It does however list "plush long-distance touring ", "smooth highway ride", "incomparable fit and finish", "reduce vibration", "optimal long-distance comfort", "outstanding long-distance ride quality". These are the attributes which I felt were characteristic of the RS line.

A flaw, which is what I would consider the whine, is defined by various sources as "a feature that mars the perfection of something", "An imperfection, often concealed, that impairs soundness", "a defect".

Most manufacturers spend a lot of time, effort and capital to ensure that there products meet their customer's expectations. Especially for big ticket disposable income items with a high turnover rate. With Yamaha maybe I just have to wait for 2010 when they release a new RS line?

So in a nutshell:

- You may or may not have a whine (now)

- There is no fix for the flaw, I'll call it a flaw

- An attempt, or series of attempts may be made to move the flaw up in range

- Yamaha considers it an "attribute" which cannot be changed

- If you have this flaw it may make it nearly impossible to recover any part of your investment unless the person purchasing the bike is very hard of hearing or does not test drive the bike.

I really like my RSTD and will make an effort at some point before the warranty expires to try and address the problem. In the mean time I'll send a message to Yamaha and keep on riding (with louder pipes...), adding things to it and cleaning it for hours on end until the wheels fall off.

For those of you with the problem I'll extend a big 'ol sorry, hope it gets better or you get a better bike.

Regards,

gp

[RSTDRIDER]

I have 28k on my 07 and just a slight whine but not all the time. Sometimes it sounds more like a turbo going thru the gears. Other than the lack of greese in the rear wheel (grinding noise) at 1500 mi. there have been no problems. I make sure they greese the splines when I replace the rear tire (about every 8-9 k). So far I've been happy with my rstd.

[flb_78]

I'd really like to have someone who has this "whine" to try and install a V-max final drive to raise the RPM's and put the engine in the power range it was designed to work in.

 

5th gear at 55mph? No wonder folks are hearing funny engine noises, the engine is being lugged. I don't shift into 5th until I'm cruising around 70 or so.

 

If your engine "whines" below 70mph, drop a gear and run in 4th to see if it goes away.

[Guest paventure]

I had the rear greased 2 weeks after I bought the bike, Yep it moaned and sure enough no grease on the splines, had the same problem with my V-Star.

 

I'm hoping the second set of replacement parts will be in this week, maybe I'll get lucky and be able to ride this weekend!..not to many left.....

 

Thanks to all for your inputs.

 

 

 

 

Hey Paventure,

On the trip I mentioned it was just like the clutch whine. When I backed off the throttle the whine would go away. There was a point at about 83 to 84 mph where the whine would go away if I held the throttle constantly at that speed. If I pulled the clutch in and coasted the whine would go away. I could only do this on an interstate highway. I would have bet my life that it wasn't the rear end and was shocked when the service manager said it was the rear diff. This may not be your problem but I would get the dealer to check out the rear diff just to be sure.

[JohnnyB]

I also have a whine in my 2008 Royal Venture. I have 1,4000 km on it and just had the caseing for the drive shaft replaced. The whine is still there it does bother me and I love the bike however if I knew about it at the time I would not have bought the bike, I have had other bikes and I hear the motor and the exaust, and that I like. It does take some of the fun away when it sounds like you are riding a sewing machine.

Johnnyb

PS

I put Samson Fish Tail

slip on's on and it helps

drownd out the whine.

They are not to loud,

they sound deep I like them

[Red Ryder]

Like JohnnyB, I have Fish Tails, only mine is from JC Whitney, and they are LOUD. There might be a whine problem but I don't hear it. Later-

[dynodon]

I had the whine in my '86 VR. Earplugs (not the "kill everything" foam plugs, but good musicians plugs, about $10, that let music and voice through at a lower level). These got rid of all the whine for me, and make long rides much nicer. ONce you get used to them you won't wan't to go without them.

 

but my whine did mostly go away after my dealer (RTR cycles in Washington IL) went through the rear end, fixed a bad bearing, greased all the important parts and replaced some parts causing leaks. Seems most of my whine was in the drive portion, not the engine/clutch.

 

But I was amused at the one service rep's description that "every bike is different".

 

What? have we gone back to 1900 when every part for a car was hand made? Cadillac made the mass production car from consistent parts in the 19-teens I think. Yes there are manufacturing tolerances, but heck, they should never be that different that this much noise is changed from bike to bike. From the owners I know that have the newer Royal Stars, they ALL pretty much make more noise than my VR did at its worst.

 

This is why the new Voyager, even though a V-twin kind of Harley look alike, will be on my VERY short list for a new bike.